Dear All I dont agree with the transfer of species under Malaxis to Corymborchis. Following points I want to raise here 1. Generic concept or circumscription of a genus is same for the species of that genus throughout the world. There is defined generic limit for both Malaxis and Corymborkis and if the species are not fitting in Malaxis they will not be fitting in Corymborkis as well. 2. There are other recent developments in the nomenclature of this group and species of Malaxis have been transferred to Dienia, Crepidium, Seidenfia etc. and these transfers are well within the limit of ICBN code. Dr. Almeida has not discussed about these genera. These statements are premature as I have not seen the Fl. Maharashtra physically and these comments are based on whatever Rashida Ji have sent. Regards Dinesh
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 20:23:13 +0530 wrote >Thanks Rashida jiThat should settle the issue. Any other thing as I wrote >earlier is the matter of Taxonomic judgement. -- Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 7:41 PM, Rashida Atthar wrote: Dr. Gurcharan ji, Here are the details as requested by you sir for the species under discussion from Flora of Mah, Vol V - A pg 28, 29Corymborkis Thouars 1. Small pseudobulbs present- C. densiflora 1. Pseudobulbs not present- C. versicolor Five new combinations have been described- C. acuminata (D. Don) Almeida (comb. nov.). C. intermedia (A. Rich.) Almeida (comb. nov.) C. latifolia (J.E.Sm.) Almeida (comb. nov) C. versicolor (Lind.) Almeida (comb. nov.). Two explanations of particular interest to the discussion, one on pg 29 under the description of c. acuminata is as follows: "Generic name Malaxis Sw. is not applicable to the generic concept and circumscription of these species. Why it is not a appropriate generic name for our plants, is explained under C. versicolor. Other generic name used for the taxa under this group is Microstylis Nutt. (nom.cons.). This generic name also applies to the New World series, which is typified by Microstylis ophioglossoides Willd., and Willdenow might be correct considering it a close ally of Geodorum Jackson. (1810). Lindley (1827) published a new generic name under Dienia congesta Lindl. based on Malaxis latifolia J.E. Sm. However, the earliest available generic name for this generic concept happens to be Corymborchis Du Petit Thuars. applied to Himalayan species going under Malaxis and Microstylis (Sensu lato). I propose to restore this generic name for our Indian orchids ". Another important explanation at the end of the description of C. versicolor is as follows: pg 30 : "The Malaxis rheedii Sw. was revived by Nair & Ansari (1981) . However, Swartz in original publication (1778) has cited Epidendrum resupinatum G. Forst., reducing his new name to illegitimate status . Seidenfaden (Bot. Tidsskr. 73: 97, 1978) excluded Forster's synonym and lectotypified Swartz's name on Rheede's figure. This practice is against the rules of the ICBN. Any name including the indication of type of different species or even the inclusion of the name of different species renders the new name illegitimate, irrespective of its own type. Similarly, Swartz's generic name also must be typified by Epidendrum resupinatum Forst. Secondly , Seidenfaden was wrong in selecting Rheede's figure as type. because Swartz had proposed the name for Occidental plant which he has applied to Oriental species". I hope the above resolves the confusion. Sir just a few days back Dr. Almeida had mentioned to me that it can take any number of years for the Kew index and other data indexes to update the new combinations. I am also attaching scanned image of a line drawing and a picture of C. versicolor from the flora. regards,Rashida. On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Pankaj Kumar wrote: I have met Dr. Almeida personally and I respect him undoubtedly and I also know some of his students very well. My intention of saying was just to see what he has done with Malaxis in his book. My personal view says, they can never be placed in Corymborkis.....it is totally out of my head!! He may have made a new combination... Neither do I doubt credibility of Dr. Neil. What he said was based on a proper reference, so has is justified himself. Sameer Surve, Swapna, Aparna, Page, if you are reading this, then get me xerox of orchidaceae. I would really like to see. The book is not available in Dehradun. RegardsPankaj On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:34 PM, Gurcharan Singh wrote: Neil jiIt may solve the issue if you could have the paragraph on nomenclature (with authority) of this species forwarded on the group. -- Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Neil Soares wrote: Hi Prof. Singh, I own all the voumes of 'Flora of Maharashtra' but haven't had time, neither do I have any material to work on. Regards, Neil Soares. --- On Thu, 8/19/10, Gurcharan Singh wrote: From: Gurcharan Singh Subject: Re: Re: [efloraofindia:44808] Re: one more ground orchid for id from Amboli To: "dinesh kumar agrawala" Cc: sahanipan...@gmail.com, tanaybos...@gmail.com, drneilsoa...@yahoo.com, indiantreepix@googlegroups.com, le...@rediffmail.com Date: Thursday, August 19, 2010, 2:38 PM Dear Members It is true that name Corymborkis versicolor has not been incorporated in IPNI, but we should respect Neil ji's word, and not reject it outright.May be the book has not reached the compilers of these databases. Dr. Almeida is a accomplished taxonomist with great contribution to the knowledge of Flora of Maharashtra. Till some one from the area is able to get hold of this volume, we should avoid commenting to the contrary. Perhaps Neil ji can help in procuring this important page of the book, or possibly Rashida ji who knows the Flora of Maharashtra so well. As far as whether the two species are distinct or synonymous is a matter of taxonomic judgement. There are thousands of species which have been merged or split by different authors. Only yesterday there was a plant uploaded by me from Kashmir with dense inflorescence and much narrower leaves (which Flora of Pakistan treated as Phytolacca latbenia Walter) and one uploaded by Nalini ji from Germany with much lax inflorescence and broader almost ovate leaves 20-30 cm broad. Most recent publications treat both as P. acinosa. Let us wait about the two species of Malaxis also till the said volume of Dr. Almeida is available to any member. -- Dr. Gurcharan Singh Retired Associate Professor SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:09 PM, dinesh kumar agrawala wrote: I agree with Dr. Pankaj that Malaxis rheedii and M. versicolor are two different plants based on Microstylis rheedii amd Microstylis versicolor respectively. The generic concept as to which genus these species will belong is a never ending debate which can only be solved with the help of phylogenetic and experimental taxonomy. It does not matter in which genus it is being treated but the identity at species level does really matters. It is true that the two species are different and treated under Seidenfia by Sath. Kumar and Manilal, Orchids of Kerala in Orchid Memories: a tribute to G. Seidenfaden published in 2004. Regarding the species level difference, there are some publications specific to this two species but unable to recall right now. Sorry for that. Dinesh On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:50:16 +0530 wrote >Dear Neil Sir, Just wanted to ask...do you mean to say that the Shubhada's plant is not Crepidium resupinatum? but Corymborkis versicolor? Or you are talking about your plant. Please do post a closeup picture of the flowers if possible. Unfortunately, I dont know of any species which is called Corymborkis versicolor. Corymborkis belongs to subfamily Tropidioideae whereas the Malaxis group belongs to Epidendroideae. They are totally different. Secondly, Malaxis versicolor and Malaxis rheedii are two different plants according to my knowledge and IPNI and Kew. I may be wrong though. Regards Pankaj Dinesh Kumar Agrawala Research Officer (Botany) Central Council for Research in Ayurveda and Siddha Jawaharlal Nehru Bhartiya Chikitsa Avum Homeopathy Anusandhan Bhawan 61-65, Institutional Area Opposite D-Block, Janakpuri New Delhi - 110 058 Mobile: +91 9560570745 SAVE PLANTS AND SAVE LIFE Dinesh Kumar Agrawala Research Officer (Botany) Central Council for Research in Ayurveda and Siddha Jawaharlal Nehru Bhartiya Chikitsa Avum Homeopathy Anusandhan Bhawan 61-65, Institutional Area Opposite D-Block, Janakpuri New Delhi - 110 058 Mobile: +91 9560570745 SAVE PLANTS AND SAVE LIFE
