To add more: Oudhia sir do you know there are around 440 names for the genus Spiranthes... BUT ONLY 37 are accepted. In other words does it mean that around 403 orchid experts made some mistake in identification. No, its just that they had a different perception. Similarly you have yours and I have mine. Pankaj
On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote: > And when I wrote Pankaj Kumar (pers. comm.) that is one of the authentic > ways many of the journal follow, if you wish to express some message. > Pankaj > > > > > On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 10:38 PM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Oudhia sir >> You cant rely on a name just because it is published. >> That ways, all botanical names given to a plant, once or multiple times >> should be valid. >> Fact is you yourself have not seen the plant but claiming based on some >> references. And I am trying to say that those references have been wrongly >> written, which is very well possible as you can see a lot of times one >> plant has got multiple synonyms. >> Its your perception whatever you wish to believe. Its my perception why I >> think they are same. >> I told u in the first mail itself that the original plant which is >> Spiranthes sinensis is not hairy. This claim is well known and you may >> check the protologue. At the same time I have also shared the original icon >> of Spiranthes australis which is hairy. >> Taxonomy is also a matter of your perception. Many such references quoted >> by you are wrong whether it belongs to flora of China or Kew checklist or >> Plant List. The main reason being, they studied the herbarium specimens and >> not the originals most of the times. >> I still say in big words that ALL PLANTS TILL NOW KNOWN FROM INDIA ARE >> NOT S. sinensis because all are hairy. Prove me wrong if you can. Otherwise >> there is no point of discussion. >> Pankaj >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 10:31 PM, Pankaj Oudhia >> <pankajoud...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> Thanks Gurcharan ji. What I feel that unless such claims are not >>> published in any standard journal and discussed thoroughly, it may be of >>> less relevance to common workers who believe in standard literature. Hoping >>> that Pankaj ji will publish his claim very soon in any such journal so that >>> it can be quoted as authentic reference. >>> >>> I request him to present the pictures of all three Spiranthes he is >>> mentioning as evidence so that we can believe in such claims, if he feels >>> it ok. >>> >>> regards >>> >>> Pankaj Oudhia >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 7:52 PM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> I think the most appropriate answer is what I wrote in another thread: >>>> >>>> In Flora of British India the species was described under the name >>>> Spiranthes australis (R. Br.) Lindl., A species name (rather >>>> combination) proposed in 1824, based on Neottia australis R. Br. (1810), a >>>> species supposed to have pubescent inflorescence spike (it is also supposed >>>> to have pubescent bracts and floral parts partly as I read from other >>>> sources). >>>> >>>> Spiranthes sinensis (Pers.) Ames, is a name (rather combination) given >>>> in 1908, based on Neottia sinensis Pers. (1807), a species described from >>>> China and differing in glabrous spikes (and bracts and floral parts). >>>> >>>> It has recently been considered by most authors (including Flora of >>>> China, Flora of Pakistan, etc.) that these two taxa are synonyms, and as >>>> basionym of latter is dated earlier, Spiranthes sinensis is accepted >>>> name. >>>> >>>> It must be remembered that it is matter of taxonomic judgement (and not >>>> a simple issue of names), as the two species were originally described as >>>> distinct species (they have distinct types). For those who consider the >>>> differences are not enough would treat them under single species S. >>>> sinensis. Those who think (like original authors) that differences are >>>> sufficient, and are also trying to detect further differences to strengthen >>>> their distinct identity, would consider them as two separate species. I >>>> think Pankaj Sahni ji is just trying to do that, trying to settle the >>>> riddle, and he being a world renowned Orchid specialist is both qualified >>>> to do that. More so he owes the duty of resolving it for us. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >>>> Retired Associate Professor >>>> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >>>> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >>>> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >>>> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >>>> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 7:47 PM, Pankaj Oudhia >>>> <pankajoud...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> Let me quote Gurcharan ji from early discussion on Ipomoea sindica. >>>>> >>>>> "Luckily our present group believes on facts evidenced by literature >>>>> references and not personal preferences." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> regards >>>>> >>>>> Pankaj Oudhia >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 7:33 PM, Pankaj Kumar >>>>> <sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I am myself the reference. You can quote, Pankaj Kumar (pers. comm.). >>>>>> Pankaj >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Pankaj Oudhia < >>>>>> pankajoud...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> In support of previous reply I am quoting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.theplantlist.org/tpl/record/kew-194521 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> S.sinensis is mentioned as synonym of S.australis. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> May I know you reference considering it as two different species? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pankaj Oudhia >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Pankaj Oudhia < >>>>>>> pankajoud...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The reference I quoted considers S. sinensis and S.australis as >>>>>>>> synonyms whereas tries to compare S.sinensis, S.honkongensis and >>>>>>>> S.sunii. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> regards >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pankaj Oudhia >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 21, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Dr Pankaj Kumar < >>>>>>>> sahanipan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot Alok sir. >>>>>>>>> Yes this also looks like Spiranthes australis. >>>>>>>>> Pankaj >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ********************************************************************** >>>>>> "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D. >>>>>> Conservation Officer >>>>>> >>>>>> Office: >>>>>> Orchid Conservation Section >>>>>> Flora Conservation Department >>>>>> Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation >>>>>> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>>>> >>>>>> Residence: >>>>>> 36C, Ng Tung Chai, Lam Tseun >>>>>> Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >>>>>> >>>>>> email: pku...@kbfg.org; sahanipan...@gmail.com; >>>>>> pankajsah...@rediffmail.com >>>>>> Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 >>>>>> 6251(mobile). Fax: +852 >>>>>> 2483 7194 >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> ********************************************************************** >> "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!" >> >> >> Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D. >> Conservation Officer >> >> Office: >> Orchid Conservation Section >> Flora Conservation Department >> Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation >> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >> >> Residence: >> 36C, Ng Tung Chai, Lam Tseun >> Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. >> >> email: pku...@kbfg.org; sahanipan...@gmail.com; >> pankajsah...@rediffmail.com >> Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251(mobile). >> Fax: +852 >> 2483 7194 >> > > > > -- > ********************************************************************** > "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!" > > > Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D. > Conservation Officer > > Office: > Orchid Conservation Section > Flora Conservation Department > Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation > Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > > Residence: > 36C, Ng Tung Chai, Lam Tseun > Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. > > email: pku...@kbfg.org; sahanipan...@gmail.com; > pankajsah...@rediffmail.com > Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251(mobile). > Fax: +852 > 2483 7194 > -- ********************************************************************** "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!" Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D. Conservation Officer Office: Orchid Conservation Section Flora Conservation Department Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. Residence: 36C, Ng Tung Chai, Lam Tseun Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong. email: pku...@kbfg.org; sahanipan...@gmail.com; pankajsah...@rediffmail.com Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251 (mobile). Fax: +852 2483 7194
