Thanks Pankaj ji and Ushadi for your encouraging comments.
Rajesh ji
Thanks for your comments and concerns. Please don't get confused by jargon
of complex botanical terms. I have repeatedly written that nonbotanists
need not bother about these terms (although I am happy to see Dinesh ji,
Prashant ji, Tabish ji, Satish ji and several others making use of these
finer terms in their identification process). I have repeatedly requested
only to take photographs from different angles as specified above and leave
it to experts to identify them. You can also help in this identification
process by finding local names (and use them for identification), comparing
with illustrations, photographs on the net and in various handbooks.
Please don't also get confused by changing scientific names. As I
wrote earlier our aim on this group is identifying a plant. As I wrote
earlier you may identify our common plant as tamatar, tomato, Solanum
lycopersicon, Lycopersicon esculentum, does not make an error in
identification. So I request nonbotanists to just not worry about these
changing names. Just go to any website The Plant List, GRIN, Sorting Plant
names if you are interested in latest name, otherwise forget it completely.
Your aim of joining this group is to share your photographs and know their
names (even a local name or common English name will do. It is only for
making our database up to date and comparable with others that we and Garg
ji findout the latest scientific name and put in our database.
I will request Rajesh ji and other such members not to have any
apprehensions. Continue to photograph your plants without bothering about
any technical terms, but give us different angles of photographs (as
mentioned above) if you want us to serve you better.
--
Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Retired Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089
http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Pankaj Kumar <sahanipan...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Thanks a lot Gurcharan sir for describing the issue nicely.
> To all members, we must understand that for a taxonomist to identify a
> plant, he or she needs the plant in his hand to check what he or she
> wants to check (characters). So I have always said, MULTIPLE SHOTS
> FROM MULTIPLE ANGLES. Frankly speaking if we all start doing it then
> we ourselves will also learn the differences between plants.
>
> Taxonomy in basic word is THE STUDY OF SIMILARITY AND DIFFERENCES.
> SIMILARITIES WHICH BRINGS PLANTS TOGETHER INTO ONE FAMILY OR GENUS AND
> DIFFERENCES WHICH HELPS IN DIFFERENTIATING THEM FROM ONE ANOTHER.
> Trust me, its not an easy job for a taxonomist to identify plant from
> pics. I know many like Gurcharan sir and Vijay, Balkar sir, Nidhan
> sir, Shrikant sir and many others can do it in one go but that is
> because of their immense experience for having seen many of the plants
> originally in wild during his work.
>
> For me to work on orchids, some time I took years to identify one
> plant. My first new species, Peristylus sahanii was collected in 2005
> but I published it only in 2010 though on the first day itself I knew
> it has to be a new species and I had reasons too. Some times it
> becomes very challenging to even identify a simple species because
> orchid is the biggest family of flowering plants.
>
> Sometimes I really get surprised how within minutes a plant from
> remote part of India gets identfied. That is the strongest part of our
> efl family.
> Best wishes to eflora and best wishes to all the family members.
> Regards
> Pankaj
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 8:02 AM, ushadi Micromini
> <microminipho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Well said Gurcharanji
> > This is very important
> > now that this group is a few years old and most of its members have been
> > watching the episodes and good photography and features essential for
> > diagnosis, its time we had some more guidelines. the writing above is
> > excellent . every body should bookmark this and put on the bookmark
> toolbar,
> > I did. . its very important.
> >
> > I have been saying this to various our members in various ways...
> > but their habits dont change because someone of our experts comes up
> with an
> > id...
> > so it satisfies the asker ... and the habit of poor photography and all
> the
> > excuses that go with them continue...
> >
> > so one habit the experts have to develop is to they need to be
> disciplined
> > enough not to jump in with a diagnosis when the photograph is poor in
> > quality or content....
> >
> > I think you have been saying this repeatedly and so has Mr. Garg from
> time
> > to time
> > may be now is the time to make it a rule both for the person asking and
> the
> > person jumping in to give a diagnosis on the meager information and poor
> > photos...
> >
> > granted not every one has great photo equipment, but even with point and
> > shoot in the pocket one can take enough pictures very quickly and provide
> > enough clues...
> >
> > usha di
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 21, 2012 at 2:39 AM, Gurcharan Singh <singh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear members
> >> Whereas Valley of Flowers has been a very enriching experience and all
> of
> >> us have greatly benefited from this episode, it would be even more
> useful if
> >> we learn from our shortcomings (partly because of pressure of time), so
> that
> >> our next trip and its results are still better and helpful for experts
> who
> >> spend their time and energy to identify these plants. Here are what I
> think
> >> some thing that can help:
> >>
> >> 1. First and foremost, never forget to record and mention place and also
> >> approx. altitude in your uploads, especially for plants meant for ID.
> >> Govindghat is at an altitude of 1800 m (roughly 5800 ft) and Gangharyia
> 3050
> >> m (roughly 10000 ft), from lower edge of Temperate climate to almost
> upper
> >> edge of subalpine climate, a huge gap as far as climatic and
> vegetational
> >> diversity is concerned. It may be difficult to remember the name of
> >> intermediate stations but one can take some time to know the time taken
> for
> >> the trek, time (fortunately it is recorded with your photograph) when
> >> photograph was taken, use this information to roughly calculate
> altitude and
> >> mention this altitude in your uploads. I assure you it will help a lot
> in
> >> identification as well as final documentation.
> >>
> >> 2. It is the time we learn the importance of multiple photographs
> >> covering different aspects of plant (aptly exemplified by Nidhan ji and
> >> Balkar ji). I had written about it before the trip also. Different
> genera
> >> may need different characters for identification of species. Basal
> leaves
> >> are essential in some genera like Valeriana, Primula, Saxifraga, etc;
> form
> >> of stem leaves (insertion, presence or absence of petiole, presence and
> >> absence of stipules and their shape and size, leaf being simple or
> compound,
> >> number of leaflets, margin of leaf/leaflet, colour of upper and lower
> >> surface, size) are essential in almost all genera; presence or absence
> of
> >> bracts and their size and shape, length of pedicel equally important in
> >> several genera; size of flower is crucial in many genera especially
> >> Impatience and others; size of sepals and their relative size with
> bracts
> >> and bracts are crucial in most genera; number of stamens are almost
> >> universally important as are the number of styles and stigma;
> information
> >> about fruit size is always a boon..........................Agreed a
> >> nonbotanist can't be expected to know all this, but I assure you that
> if you
> >> take a minimum of 4-5 photographs (I have seen most persons taking more
> than
> >> 5 photographs of same plant, but mostly of same flower......so time can
> be
> >> no justification), it will help you a lot, experts will find it easier
> to
> >> identify and this will greatly enrich our database:
> >> a) Photograph of habit so that basal leaves are well in focus.
> >> b) side view of flowering twig so that insertion of leaves and
> flowers
> >> is visible.
> >> c) Close up of side view of flower right from the point it arises
> from
> >> the inflorescence axis.
> >> d) Close up of top view of flower so that stamens and styles can be
> >> seen
> >> e) photograph of fruit if possible (it is extremely helpful in
> almost
> >> all composites, species of Solanum, Veronica,
> >> etc.)
> >> Kindly remember the size of flower and leaves. As it is often
> difficult
> >> to recall I find it very useful to place leaf or flower over your palm
> and
> >> photograph it. It helps a lot to determine size fairly accurately later
> on.
> >> Alternately keep any marker such as scale or tip of pen to estimate
> size.
> >>
> >> I know it will be difficult to forget the old culture of this Group,
> >> and Flowers of India where flower only has been considered as
> sufficient.
> >> Luckily more are more members are now learning the importance of other
> >> characters: Balkar ji and Nidhan ji have shown us the way. Let us
> follow it
> >> in our future trips. It will be much more enjyable and rewarding.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> >> Retired Associate Professor
> >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007
> >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018.
> >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089
> >> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/
> >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Usha di
> > ===========
> >
> > --
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>
>
>
> --
> **********************************************************************
> "Taxonomists getting Extinct and Species Data Deficient !!"
>
> Pankaj Kumar, Ph.D.
> Conservation Officer
>
> Office:
> Orchid Conservation Section
> Flora Conservation Department
> Kadoorie Farm and Botanic Garden (KFBG) Corporation
> Lam Kam Road, Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong.
>
> Residence:
> 151, 1st Floor, Tai Om Tsuen
> Tai Po, New Territories, Hong Kong.
>
> email: pku...@kbfg.org; sahanipan...@gmail.com;
> pankajsah...@rediffmail.com
> Phone: +852 2483 7128 (office - 8:30am to 5:00pm); +852 9436 6251
> (mobile). Fax: +852 2483 7194
>
--
