Le 12 oct. 2023 à 09:42, Dániel Balogh via INDOLOGY
<[email protected]> a écrit :
As for the Sanskrit in the lyrics of "The Duel of the Fates", it's
probably there, but very well hidden. "Mangled" doesn't begin to
describe it... I looked into this years ago, and here's some of what
I've found. Allegedly, the lyrics are based on a Welsh poem called
Cad Goddeu, rendered into English as The Battle of the Trees. One
verse of this, in one English translation, goes
"Under the tongue root a fight most dread, and another raging behind
in the head"
(I am still baffled as to what this "fight most dread" may be under a
"tongue root".)
Anyway, this was supposedly "translated" into Sanskrit, though the
translator may not have known Sanskrit beyond being able to look up
some words in a dictionary, then broken up and rearranged by the
composer into something that sounded good to him. As far as I know,
no official lyrics were ever published, but some people have
transcribed phonetically what they thought they heard. The result was:
Korah Matah Korah Rahtahmah
Korah Rahtamah Yoodhah Korah
Korah Syahdho Rahtahmah Daanyah
Korah Keelah Daanyah
Nyohah Keelah Korah Rahtahmah
Syadho Keelah Korah Rahtahmah
Korah Daanyah Korah Rahtahmah
Korah Daanyah Korah Rahtahmah
Nyohah Keelah Korah Rahtahmah
Syadho Keelah Korah Rahtahmah
Korah
Korah Matah Korah Rahtahmah
Korah Daanyah Korah Rahtahmah
Nyohah Keelah Korah Rahtahmah
Syadho Keelah Korah Rahtahmah
Then someone, who definitely knew no more Sanskrit than being able to
flip the pages of a dictionary (but was a speaker of a modern North
Indian language), kept doing so until he found something that sort of
vaguely resembled the words above, and announced to the world that
these are the meanings of the words in the lyrics. For instance:
Matah = head (Hindi माथा?); Rath = speak (??); Amah = give (??) etc.
Others then passed this on as fact, some even adding that it's okay
if it doesn't make sense, "because there is no formalised grammar in
Sanskrit".
At any rate, I think some segments of the above transcript can indeed
be matched to Sanskrit words, e.g.
korah is probably /ghoraḥ/ (unless it's /kharaḥ/) and korah rahtamah
may be /ghoratamaḥ/, perhaps a rendition of "most dread"
yoodhah is definitely /yuddhaḥ/
syahdho may be /*sya adhaḥ/ (perhaps matah also contains /adhaḥ/?)/
/
daanyah and/or nyohah may contain /anyaḥ/ (perhaps preceded by an
ablative case ending in daanyah)
There's rather more recognisable Sanskrit in the lyrics of another
piece, Qui Gon's Funeral. The (unofficial) transcript says,
Madhurah swehpna, go rahdomah swehpna, morittioo, madhurah, swehpna.
There is no translation, but the English subtitle of the song is
Death''s long sweet sleep.
I think this can safely be equated to Madhuraḥ svapnaḥ, ghoratamaḥ
svapnaḥ, mṛtyuḥ, madhuraḥ svapnaḥ.
Though perhaps we should look for a word meaning something like
"long" in "go rahdomah" - but I haven't been able to think of one.
All the best,
Dan
On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 at 16:12, Antonia Ruppel via INDOLOGY
<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Herman,
For once, this is a case of mythology that came to be recently
enough for its creators to tell us about their motivations on
Wikipedia:
Ahsoka was created by George Lucas
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Lucas__;!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsLkvHPrWQ$>
and
Dave Filoni
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Filoni__;!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsJWpDhGEg$>.^[2]
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahsoka_Tano*cite_note-2__;Iw!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsKbMhz0hg$>
The character was developed to illustrate how Anakin Skywalker
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anakin_Skywalker__;!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsKP6jdATA$>
develops
from the brash, undisciplined Padawan apprentice in /Star Wars:
Episode II – Attack of the Clones
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_Episode_II_**B_Attack_of_the_Clones__;4oCT!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsJ-D2OYUA$>/
(2002)
to the more reserved Jedi Knight in /Episode III – Revenge of the
Sith
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episode_III_**B_Revenge_of_the_Sith__;4oCT!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsJQwkmZlA$>/
(2005).^[3]
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahsoka_Tano*cite_note-TVGuide-3__;Iw!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsL8ynUPgQ$>
Lucas, who had two daughters, also wanted the character to
appeal to girls.^[4]
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahsoka_Tano*cite_note-taylor-4__;Iw!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsLAPUUz0Q$>
Early in development, Ahsoka's name was "Ashla".^[5]
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahsoka_Tano*cite_note-5__;Iw!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsLUdQQbkg$>
^[a]
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahsoka_Tano*cite_note-7__;Iw!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsJBXavTHA$>
Lucas renamed her after the ancient Indian emperor Ashoka
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka__;!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsK5xFz-5g$>;
the spelling was then altered by screenwriter Henry Gilroy
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Gilroy__;!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsKWu4NANQ$>.^[7]
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahsoka_Tano*cite_note-8__;Iw!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsIQrc2Epw$>
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahsoka_Tano
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahsoka_Tano__;!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsKVVTxctg$>)
and Twitter:
'In honor of #CloneWars 10th, the title page for the series bible
I wrote back in 05. When we met with George to discuss the bible
he changed Anakin's Padawan from 'Ashla' to 'Ashoka', after the
Indian Emperor of the Maurya Dynasty. I later tweaked it to
Ahsoka to make her unique.'
(https://twitter.com/HGilroy67/status/1019372713712893952
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://twitter.com/HGilroy67/status/1019372713712893952__;!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsKVMf-xVA$>)
All my best,
Antonia
On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 at 11:08, Charles DiSimone via INDOLOGY
<[email protected]> wrote:
Dear Herman Tieken,
I don't know if Ahsoka is related to Aśoka but there is a
long history of Sanskrit and related influence in Star Wars.
I recell reading that Yoda takes his name from yoddhṛ. The
Duel of the Fates song from Episode 1 has its chorus sung in
(mangled) Sanskrit. Additionally, Tibetan and Kalmyk were
supposedly the inspiration, in part, of the language of the
Ewoks.
With my best wishes,
Charles
Prof. Dr. Charles DiSimone
Associate Professor of Buddhist Studies
Department of Languages and Cultures
Ghent University
On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 9:44 AM Tieken, H.J.H. (Herman) via
INDOLOGY <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear List members,
I saw announced a sequel to Star Wars which features a
character called Ahsoka. I am curious to know if this is
a mangled version of Aśoka, via Ashoka (in Dutch papers
the aspiration in the name Gandhi is often misplaced:
Ghandi).
with kind regards, Herman
Herman Tieken
Stationsweg 58
2515 BP Den Haag
The Netherlands
00 31 (0)70 2208127
website: hermantieken.com
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://hermantieken.com/__;!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsLgloYriQ$>
/The Aśoka Inscriptions: Analysing a corpus/, New Delhi:
Primus Books, 2023.
https://primusbooks.com/ancient/the-asoka-inscriptions-analysing-a-corpus-by-herman-tieken/
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://primusbooks.com/ancient/the-asoka-inscriptions-analysing-a-corpus-by-herman-tieken/__;!!IBzWLUs!StrSvxXIKCbWM0WglT1alqKurYsZIieeTRnf2Hm6DYekHhQ45cggJl1vVhn_BAKc6WGNeYVE5Zc9LGIWPpgVrsI93T3x5A$>
/
/
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