Hi Friends,
        First I just want to thank Maren again, for getting this manual set up, 
so that we can move forward with translating and editing.  3 Cheers!!!

        During our early discussions, I had mentioned, and she agreed, that 
since the Docs list covers kind of a lot of territory (website, new manual, 
various other documentation) we might want to identify discussions pertaining 
to 
the manual by something in the title of message.  That's why I put [Manual] at 
the beginning of the title of this message.  I'm not sure if it should maybe go 
at the end of the title?  Or maybe should be [Man]?

        My main reason for this message, is because I want to start a 
discussion 
about overall organization of the chapters.  To me, it makes sense to get that 
ironed out in the beginning.  Because as it grows, it could become harder and 
harder to change how it's organized.

        (Note that in this message I'm more describing the chapter and section 
titles, because right after this, I want to send another message on the subject 
of possibly improving section and chapter titles.  Eventually, they'll come 
together, but for getting everyone's ideas out, it's probably better to have 
separate threads.)

        So here are some thoughts I'm having on organization.  If everyone else 
wants to wait, that's fine too.  Just speak up  :-)

        To me, the Selection tool is a global tool and does not belong under 
Geometric Shapes.  That implies either it can only be used with the shape 
tools, 
or used best with them.  And that's not the case at all, in my view.

        I'm thinking we need a new major section, that would go between 
Introduction and Geometric Shapes.  Maybe it would be called something like The 
Basics or Getting Started?  The purpose of it would be to quickly make newbies 
productive, while linking to the relevant parts of the manual, at each step. 
Then the rest of the manual would by and large be about the same (except I'll 
probably suggest a different order for some of chapters later).  This could 
really almost be in the form of a tutorial, although not necessarily.

        This section I'm proposing would include the following
-- the current Interface chapter
-- the current Managing the Workspace chapter(which appears to be about 
Document 
Properties dialog)
-- the current Selection tool
-- the current Fill and Stroke dialog
-- a new chapter which explains the difference between raster and vector 
(unless 
this already exists and I haven't found it yet?)
-- current Importing raster images
-- current exporting PNG
-- current Copying/duplicating
-- current Saving your work  (these last 3 are currently way down the list, in 
advanced section) (see discussion below)
-- a new chapter introducing transparency, but linking to deeper applications 
in 
Fill/Color and/or Advanced sections
-- current Align and Distrib from Path section to here
-- maybe Transform dialog? (not sure if currently exists)

(not in that order - we can discuss the order later, if everyone agrees to this 
new section)

        I'm having a hesitation about including the Fill and Stroke dialog in 
this section.  Most of it is about color and transparency.  But because of the 
Stroke Style tab, it becomes more of a global tool.  I generally have it open 
always.  Other comments?

        The reason I would include Importing here, is because many newbies 
start 
out with Inkscape by needing to trace a raster image (auto-trace or manual).  I 
tend to think of importing as part of setting up my document.  Any other 
thoughts?

        To me, you can't get more global than copying/duplicating (except maybe 
selection tool).  For Saving Your Work, it just doesn't make sense (to me) to 
have that in advanced section.  I realize for many formats, it is advanced 
material.  But I'm thinking -- have a simple explanation in this new section, 
but then have links to the more advanced info, which most newbies won't need, 
just to get started.


        For the section on Paths, I would suggest moving Strokes, Markers,  and 
Custom Markers, out of the Fill/Colors section, into Paths section.  That seems 
obvious to me, but I'd be interested to hear reasons for keeping them with 
Fill/Color.  Ordering of fill/stroke/marker here too.

        Is the Transform dialog covered anywhere?  I don't see it by browsing 
the chapters, but maybe is there somewhere?  If not, I would put either in the 
Geometric Shapes section, or maybe even the new section.

        After some discussion, we can propose a good order for the chapters.  
Of 
course, I can only read those which have been translated.  So maybe the current 
order will make more sense when I can read them.

        But for now, what do you all think about the idea of a new section?

All best,
brynn



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