On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 1:49 PM Fernando Gont <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 3/9/19 23:33, Tom Herbert wrote: > > Bob, > > > > I agree with Fred. Note, the very first line of the introduction: > > > > "Operational experience [Kent] [Huston] [RFC7872] reveals that IP > > fragmentation introduces fragility to Internet communication". > > > > This attempts to frame fragmentation as being generally fragile with > > supporting references. However, there was much discussion on the list > > about operational experience that demonstrates fragmentation is not > > fragile. > > Discussion is not measurements. Do you have measurements that suggest > otherwise? > > We did separate measurements, with different methodologies, and they > suggest the same thing. You can discuss as much as you want. But that > will not make fragmentation work. > > > > > In particular, we know that fragmentation with tunnels is > > productively deployed and has been for quite some time. So that is the > > counter argument to the general statement that fragmentation is > > fragile. With the text about tunneling included in the introduction I > > believe that was sufficient balance of the arguments, but without the > > text the reader could be led to believe that fragmentation is fragile > > for everyone all the time which is simply not true and would be > > misleading. > > "fragile" means that it fails in an uncceptably large number of cases. > ~30 failure rate is not acceptable. ~20% isn't, either. > Okay, so then the definition of a fragile protocol is one that has a failure rate greater than 20%? If so, then that should really be stated in the draft. But, then I'd point out that per https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html, IPv6 is only supported by 30% of the Internet at best, so it fails 70% of the time. So by that same definition, isn't IPv6 fragile?
Tom > > > > > > > But the "problem" of fragmentation is in intermediate devices that > > don't properly handle it as the draft highlights. So it seems like > > part of addressing the problem should also be to fix the problem! That > > is implementations should be fixed to deal with fragmentation. > > The same logic would solve the problem of widespread famine, and others. > I don't think that logic has solved any real problems in the real world. > > -- > Fernando Gont > SI6 Networks > e-mail: [email protected] > PGP Fingerprint: 6666 31C6 D484 63B2 8FB1 E3C4 AE25 0D55 1D4E 7492 > > > > _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area
