Sending again as this was rejected by int-area...

I don’t think *I* put it in a working group. I’ll tell you the same thing I 
have told Fred many times.

It’s not in our charter. https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/v6ops/charter/ 
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/v6ops/charter/>.

If you disagree, argue from the charter, or a charter such as 6man or int-area 
to go to that WG.

Part of the problem is that Fred doesn’t want to discuss IPv6 networks (like 
“all of China”), he wants to discuss a network connecting aircraft in flight to 
stations on the ground, that might use IPv6 but could use MPLS (as Lufthansa 
does) or some other technology. When I have tried to apply his drafts to IPv6 
networks, he has pointedly corrected me.

ATN is pretty close, and just needs to have a bof to become a working group. I 
would suggest talking with Warren Kumari about the prospects there. Or maybe 
int-area, which is copied here.

Sent using a machine that autocorrects in interesting ways...

> On Aug 3, 2021, at 8:32 AM, Vasilenko Eduard <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> It is the only scheme that has at the same time:
> - mobility support (3GPP roaming has such feature)
> - works cross-everything on the global scale: IPv4/Pv6/L2 and/or many 
> carriers on the path in the underlay (SD WAN has such feature too)
> And many other features that are evident for such type of an overlay: 
> fragmentation, QoS, multicast, security, etc.
> 
> The use case of airplane, vessel, or vehicle jumping over different carriers 
> is real. Nothing else addresses it.
> 
> I promise to work on it if it would be adopted whatever WG you would put it 
> in.
> Ed/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ipv6 [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Templin (US), Fred L
> Sent: Monday, August 2, 2021 9:50 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]; int-area <[email protected]>; rtgwg-chairs 
> <[email protected]>; Bob Hinden <[email protected]>; Robert Moskowitz 
> <[email protected]>; Linda Dunbar <[email protected]>; 6man 
> Chairs <[email protected]>; [email protected]; routing WG 
> <[email protected]>
> Subject: AERO/OMNI transition to the IETF (2nd try)
> 
> (Re-sending to correct [email protected] email address)
> 
> Members of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) Aeronautical 
> Telecommunications Network (ATN) Community and the Internet Engineering Task 
> Force (IETF),
> 
> As you know, the AERO and OMNI technologies have been under development for 
> many years within the ATN Working Group I (WG-I) and Mobility Subgroup (MSG) 
> communities, but their technical specifications are now complete and ready 
> for adoption by the IETF.
> The final products are in the following IETF "Internet Drafts" dated 7/2/2021:
> 
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-templin-6man-aero-22.txt
> https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-templin-6man-omni-33.txt
> 
> These documents will remain in their current form unless and until they are 
> ADOPTED by the IETF for progression to some form of Requests for Comments 
> (RFC) publication. In the interim, an "Issue Tracker" will be maintained for 
> each document to track any technical and/or editorial errata reported between 
> now and IETF adoption.
> 
> As you may be aware, there has been an impasse as to how to encourage the 
> IETF to adopt the work with the goal of producing RFCs. The possible avenues 
> for RFC publication include:
> 
> 1) IETF working group documents
> In this approach, the document is adopted by a new or existing IETF working 
> group, with the ultimate goal of progressing to a Working Group Last Call 
> (WGLC), an IESG ballot, a resolution of all outstanding issues and finally 
> publication as either Standards Track, Informational or Experimental-category 
> RFC.
> 
> 2) IESG Area Director (AD) sponsorship
> The AD Sponsored approach is sometimes taken in which an IETF AD (e.g., 
> Routing Area, Internet Area, etc.) serves as "Document Shepherd" and brings 
> the work forward outside the context of any IETF working group but within 
> scope of their area of responsibility. The document would undergo IESG review 
> the same as for a working group document, again with Standards Track, 
> Informational or Experimental-category as possible outcomes.
> 
> 3) Independent Submissions through the RFC-ISE Editor The ISE stream allows 
> anyone with work that is relevant to the IETF and of sufficient quality to 
> submit an Internet Draft directly to the RFC-ISE Editor. The work is then 
> progressed toward RFC publication with a note that it is related to the IETF 
> but is not an IETF standard of any kind. In this alternative, only 
> Informational or Experimental documents are possible and Standards Track is 
> not an option. While there have been examples of non-Standards Track works 
> that have been implemented by vendors of widely distributed implementations, 
> this seems to be the exception rather than the normal course of events for 
> ISE stream documents.
> 
>> From the above alternatives, it should be clear that AERO and OMNI
>> should be published
> as Standards-Track if at all possible as either an IETF working group or 
> AD-sponsored product (i.e., options 1 or 2). While publication through option 
> 3) would also attain the desirable end -state of an IETF RFC publication, 
> failure to attain Standards Track could fail to encourage a wide range of 
> network equipment vendors to implement the technologies in their products 
> which could lead to either few or no equipment vendor products to choose from.
> 
> To date, several overtures have been made to the IETF including publication 
> of a liaison statement requesting IETF action:
> 
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1676/
> 
> The AERO/OMNI works were then brought to the attention of the IETF 6man 
> working group where they were largely ignored, including a presentation at 
> IETF110 that drew no comments or discussion. This led the author to conclude 
> that the scope of the work is too broad for the 6man charter; therefore, 
> following finalization of the drafts the works were then offered to the IETF 
> rtgwg and intarea working groups for presentation at IETF111 held last week.
> 
> At IETF111, a presentation to rtgwg generated substantial discussion on the 
> chat session for which a summary note was posted on the rtgwg mailing list:
> 
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtgwg/oNPr8BA_4esFDXTmY-CbBRhkJ2I/
> 
> The IETF111 presentation to intarea generated no discussion, presumably due 
> to the author's attempt  to cram 60 mins worth of detailed presentation 
> materials into a 20 min timeslot which may have been better served by a 
> shorter presentation with higher-level bullet points.
> 
> With all of the above under consideration, the following are now seen as 
> possible ways forward toward RFC publication:
> 
> 1) Publish AERO as a WG item of the rtgwg working group, while publishing 
> OMNI as a WG item of the intarea working group.
> 
> 2) Publish one of AERO/OMNI as a WG item, while publishing the other as AD 
> Sponsored.
> 
> 3) Publish both AERO/OMNI as AD sponsored (i.e., with AERO in the routing 
> area and OMNI in the Internet area)
> 
> 4) Form a new ATN IETF working group using the [email protected] mailing list for 
> coordination and publish both AERO/OMNI as working documents of this new 
> working group.
> 
> 5) Publish both AERO and OMNI as RFC ISE stream Informational Category 
> documents.
> 
> 6) Other
> 
> Of these alternatives, operating within the context of an existing working 
> group or through AD-sponsorship (options 1-3) would provide the fastest paths 
> toward a Standards-Track publication, while publishing through the RFC ISE 
> stream (option 5) could potentially provide an even faster path but for a 
> lesser publication category. Option 4) (form a new working group) could also 
> be considered, but would likely take multiple years with cooperation needed 
> from a significant number of contributors since first a "Birds of a Feather 
> (BoF)" would first need to be held at an upcoming IETF meeting, followed by 
> selection of working group chairs followed by development and ratification of 
> a working group charter, etc. And, it is not clear that ICAO's deadlines 
> would be met by an approach that could take 3-5 years or even longer to 
> produce a final product.
> 
> So, the purpose of this message is to both inform the ICAO and IETF 
> communities of possible ways forward toward AERO/OMNI IETF RFC publication 
> and to request interested parties to respond to this message to confirm that 
> some form of IETF action is desired. This is especially true for members of 
> the [email protected] list who are not regular IETF participants.
> This appeal is being posted also to the IETF working groups as well as wg 
> chairs/ADs where the work might potentially be taken up.
> 
> In closing, the technical work on AERO and OMNI is now complete. So, if they 
> are indeed wanted by ICAO (and/or any other interest groups) the time for 
> discussion on publication ways forward has come. Please send responses to 
> this list (keeping the To:/Cc:) to express your interest.
> 
> Sincerely, Fred Templin
> [email protected]
> [email protected]
> 
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