On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 2:35 PM Rowan Tommins <rowan.coll...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 18 May 2023 at 16:27, Deleu <deleu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Monolog is a great example of what PHP is missing - a single library for a > > purpose. I have never worked with any other library besides Monolog and I > > never worked on any project which didn't have it installed. Perhaps my > > bubble might be a limiting factor here, but I get a feeling that Monolog > is > > considered to be The Logging PHP Library. > > > > > Then in what sense is it "missing"? What value would be served by placing > an elephant logo on it, and renaming it "PHPLog™"? > I meant exactly the opposite. Monolog is an example of what PHP (is missing === doesn't have enough of). There's hardly any reason to re-release it under the PHP umbrella. Monolog already won the log battle. I can't say the same for virtually anything else, to be honest. Some folks might say that Guzzle won the HTTP battle, I just disagree and think we could have something better by default, such as Python's `request` Library, but I can also see such controversy being lost and leaving PHP without an HTTP Client built-in. That would be a matter for each individual RFC. > > Laravel's `Arr` class also didn't get scrutinized by PHP RFC so there's > no > > way to know whether it's all good, some good or all bad. > > > > > I don't think PHP's decision-making process can be held up as a shining > example of good governance, in contrast to everyone else's anarchy. I don't > know much about Laravel's governance, but I am quite sure every change is > discussed and iterated on before release. In fact, they probably have a > whole bunch of standards and processes that PHP is lacking, and would have > to invent to make any new library a success. > I didn't mean anything about PHP's governance, to be honest. I am, however, very aware of the community battle around frameworks. I like Laravel's Arr class, but there are PHP developers that hate all things Laravel. What PHP governance brings here is that if it can't be agreed on, it won't be included. So perhaps an RFC discussing PHP's Array functions could end up taking some of Laravel's implementations or none. My point here was mostly about the fact that a PHP Standard Package addition going through PHP RFC has a lower entry barrier compared to built in C, but a higher entry level than anybody in the PHP community creating a package they personally like for themselves. The combined experience of internals participants is at least pretty good to bring a lot of perspectives. -- Marco Deleu
