In conjunction to my vote, I really think Pierrick's proposal and patch is worth another look if we talk implementation.
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Pierrick Charron <pierr...@webstart.fr>wrote: > +1 > > On 15 November 2010 21:27, guilhermebla...@gmail.com < > guilhermebla...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > @Zeev: That topic was related to an already built patch, which some > > where in favor, some against. That discussion lead to nowhere. > > So I opened a thread topic by topic for some democracy approval. As > > soon as we reach some reasonable consensus, we can start another patch > > implementation based on what we end up with this thread. > > > > If result of the poll says "OK" to meta attribute, then we can discuss > > next topic (possible implementations). > > Until then, I'd rather appreciate everyone to stick to their votes > > instead of revamp another discussion that lead to nothing. > > > > BTW, I forgot to add my vote: > > > > +1 > > > > On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:22 PM, Zeev Suraski <z...@zend.com> wrote: > > > I don't see a point in repeating the discussion we've already had on > that > > topic several weeks ago. There needs to be an overwhelmingly good reason > to > > add a brand new syntax to the language, a whole branch of it in the case > of > > annotations - and there simply isn't. > > > > > > Zeev > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: guilhermebla...@gmail.com [mailto:guilhermebla...@gmail.com] > > >> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 7:08 PM > > >> To: PHP internals > > >> Subject: [PHP-DEV] PHP 5.4 - Meta attribute (aka. Annotations) support > > >> discussion > > >> > > >> Hi folks, > > >> > > >> I'll start a series of topics (in this thread) about meta attribute > > (aka. > > >> Annotations) discussion. > > >> So as soon as we agree on each topic I'll open another point to be > > discussed. > > >> Only when we reach some consensus I'll open another topic discussion. > > >> I suggest to have a poll for each topic, so we can do some democratic > > >> internals decision. I'd reduce the scope of voters to only people with > > PHP > > >> karma. > > >> > > >> The first topic to be defined is: Does PHP need meta attribute > support? > > >> > > >> Any language is built at the top of syntax, words, semantics and > > context. > > >> We cannot define it as a language if we don't have these 4 parts well > > fit > > >> together. > > >> For a simple sentence like: I am all ears, we can easily identify > these > > parts. > > >> But the real meaning of this sentence (context) is only achieved with > > another > > >> part of the language: signifier-significate. > > >> A signifier is an atomic form, material element, visible, sensitive. > > >> A significate is an idea, semantic content, conceptual element, not > > sensitive > > >> perceptive. > > >> > > >> This important part is only reminded when we get back to semantics, > > >> specifically when talking about idiomatic expressions, a metaphor in > our > > >> sample. The meaning will only work if we have the context, a known > > >> information. Our sentence would mean that spoker person only have > ears, > > >> while the true meaning is that he/she is paying attention. > > >> A computer language doesn't differ from a language by any means. We > have > > >> tokens (words), a syntax, semantic. But the lack of contextualization > > brings a > > >> hole on language and how your application should behave. This behavior > > can > > >> be achieved by many different ways; the simplest way is known as meta > > >> information. > > >> > > >> Considering you have a lack of idiomatic expressions knowledge of > > someone > > >> that is reading. He'd think person only have ears, but if you meta > > notify him > > >> that it is a metaphor, he'd try to find a different meaning. Example: > > >> (Metaphor) I am all ears. > > >> > > >> Now that we find how meta-information can benefit languages, it is > time > > to > > >> understand how meta-information can benefit a computer language. > > >> > > >> A good example is define a Service that validates Domain Objects. > > >> Imagining a scenario where you have a User class that holds email and > > >> password. Email and password fields must be validated, for example, > > email > > >> as an email and password with at least 6 chars. A generic validation > > service > > >> could not have the User validation hardcoded inside the service, so > the > > >> solution would be an external factor that explains to service how to > > validate > > >> the DO. One of the possible implementations would be a UserValidator > > class > > >> that contains validation rules for each field. This external factor is > a > > good > > >> sample of meta-information. But how would a meta attribute would solve > > >> this situation? > > >> A Service could simple retrieve the validation instructions by > > Reflecting the > > >> class which instance is going to be validated. > > >> Basically, to validate a Domain Object, it is simply required to add > > validation > > >> rules on desired attributes. Example: > > >> > > >> class User { > > >> <Email Meta Information> > > >> protected $email; > > >> > > >> <At least 6 chars Meta Information> > > >> protected $password; > > >> } > > >> > > >> *NOTE*: Please understand that this do not enter in any implementation > > >> details. It is not time (yet) to talk baout docblock, new syntax, etc. > > >> Scope now is simpler than that. > > >> > > >> Now that is possible to see how meta attribute support could benefit a > > >> language, I compiled a simple list of known projects and how can they > > >> benefit of meta support: > > >> - phpUnit Providing meta functionality for test cases, examples: > > >> @dataProvider for test data iteration, @expectedException for catching > > >> exceptions, etc. > > >> - Doctrine For Object-Relational mapping, examples: @Entity, > @OneToOne, > > >> @Id, etc. > > >> - Zend Framework Server classes Used to automate mappings for XML-RPC, > > >> SOAP, etc. > > >> - FLOW3 for dependency injection and validation > > >> - Symfony2 for validation and routing rules > > >> - Others: Validation, Functional Behavior injection (which could take > > >> advantage of Traits), etc. > > >> > > >> > > >> Poll will be opened for voting for 7 days (1 week) starting from now. > > >> Poll will be closed next Monday at 5pm GMT. > > >> Question: Does PHP need meta attribute support? > > >> > > >> Happy voting! > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Guilherme Blanco > > >> Mobile: +55 (16) 9215-8480 > > >> MSN: guilhermebla...@hotmail.com > > >> São Paulo - SP/Brazil > > >> > > >> -- > > >> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, > > visit: > > >> http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Guilherme Blanco > > Mobile: +55 (16) 9215-8480 > > MSN: guilhermebla...@hotmail.com > > São Paulo - SP/Brazil > > > > -- > > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > > To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > > > > > -- Thanks, Will Fitch Director of Operations | Quepasa.com 931.205.8242 | will.fi...@quepasacorp.com Twitter: twitter.com/willfitch
