At 07:36 AM 6/28/2003, Tom Jones \(.NET\) wrote:

Authentication is not the end-game. Exchanging money for goods or services is the end-game.

No, it isn't. Exchanging arbitrary products and services is the purpose for which money was invented and don't ever forget that.

Well, first of all it is not necessary that there is even a thing
called a "payment".   I almost challenge anybody to inform
me, what is a "payment" anyway?  other than a trivially simple
entry on a database table at a bank, with immensely expensive
staffs and security wrapped around it, gargoyles on the bulding etc.

In theory all our interparty obligations could be netted.
http://www.ledgerism.net/arapcloud.htm  They are just information,
which is static in nature, and comes at the *end* of a decision
by two parties to execute some economic transfer.

If you're into dot net you are aware of the business process
layers of BPEL4WS, as well as ebXML and others.  The models
for specification of business process are the beginnings of
what may eventually allow us to trade without even quantifying
things in money at all.  The nesting of transaction models
within particular collaborations, with some normative ways of
handling exceptions is maturing a lot faster than humans are
able to understand and use it, outside of large enterprises.
I admit that.

The reason I mention those specifications of transaction
flows and products etc. is a) they're fundamentally more useful
in the process of creating transactions.  b) payment or
exchanging money comes at the end, and it's impossible
to automate the earlier stages if you start at the end. and
c) software developers are automating the earliest stages
here, and they are going to end up owning all the data, so
get used to it.  For example sooner or later shoppers might
receive electronoic receipts that allows them to reorder
the same stuff.  or shop around for lower prices. etc.  When
we have those sorts of platforms, and execution of purchases
the payment/settlement migrates out of the bank.  It is
almost, nothing except another barcode product.

I wrote a little thing about this.... again, this is a thought
experiment intended to prove the point that we do NOT need
banks or "exchanging money" which you asserted to be
the highest stage of evolution!   grrr!   :-)
http://www.ledgerism.net/nonquantified.htm

warm regards

TOdd


Note that I am assuming that banks (holders of intangible assets) are
required in a market economy.

Calling one of the principals the relying party misses the point.

What we need is a merchant, a merchant's bank, a seller and a seller's
bank.  The other stuff is just word play.

..tom





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