Hi Ben,

> Hi IPsec!
> 
> We've just published draft-ietf-ipsecme-sha3-01. This version aligns the 
> draft more closely with draft-ietf-ipsecme-
> ikev2-prf-plus-00:
> * Rather than integrating KMAC into prf+, we've replaced prf+ entirely with a 
> single KMAC call, which simplifies the
> design.
> * We've doubled KMAC's preferred key sizes to be the same as the default PRF 
> output length, hence aligning it
> with the corresponding HMAC of the same strength (but see point 2 below)
> 
> 
> There are a couple of points we'd like the WG's opinion on - these are 
> highlighted as EDNOTEs in the draft, but
> are elaborated below:
> 
> 1) KMAC supports use of customisation strings, and this draft makes use of 
> them to provide separation between
> the IKE context and the ESP/AH context. There seemed to be some interest in 
> the room at IETF 123 for this
> approach. The concern is that without use of customisation strings, the same 
> PRF output could be derived in
> different contexts.
> 
> For instance, consider the following derivations of SKEYSEED (following a 
> rekey), and of KEYMAT (generated in a
> CREATE_CHILD_SA):
> 
>     SKEYSEED = prf(SK_d (old), g^ir (new) | Ni | Nr)
>     KEYMAT = prf+(SK_d, g^ir (new) | Ni | Nr)
> 
> When using KMAC, prf and prf+ are identical, hence if asking for the same 
> amount of key material, given the same
> inputs these would produce the same outputs. This is unlikely to manifest as 
> an actual problem since the second
> input should be different, but it feels prudent to try to prevent this sort 
> of thing entirely. As it stands, this is a
> deviation from draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-prf-plus. Do we want to keep the 
> customisation strings?

I believe this should be aligned with draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-prf-plus: if the 
WG thinks that customization strings
should be used, then they must be specified in 
draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-prf-plus for all class of variable-output-size PRFs.

To address the particular case you provided (to distinguish between PRF and 
PRF+)
it is enough to revert the rule in draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-prf-plus to always 
use a single-round prf+ with variable-output-size PRFs (thus, always append 
0x01 in case of prf+).

That said, I can see the value of using customization strings (and I suspect 
cryptographers would favor their use for 
the purpose of domain separation). My concerns:
 - we don't use customization strings for ordinary PRFs and it seems that no 
one cared so far
 - as you pointed out, this is more a theoretical issue
 - what if some future variable-output-size PRF doesn't allow customization 
strings in its API?

Anyway, I think that this should be specified in 
draft-ietf-ipsecme-ikev2-prf-plus and
I would ask the IPsec community for a feedback on this.

Regards,
Valery.

[...]

> Best,
> Ben, Adam, and Jonathan
> 
> 
> OFFICIAL
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> Sent: 29 January 2026 08:46
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: [email protected]
> Subject: [IPsec] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipsecme-sha3-01.txt
> 
> Internet-Draft draft-ietf-ipsecme-sha3-01.txt is now available. It is a work 
> item of the IP Security Maintenance and
> Extensions (IPSECME) WG of the IETF.
> 
>    Title:   Use of SHA-3 in the Internet Key Exchange Protocol Version 2 
> (IKEv2) and IPsec
>    Authors: Ben Salter
>             Adam Raine
>             Jonathan Cruickshanks
>    Name:    draft-ietf-ipsecme-sha3-01.txt
>    Pages:   32
>    Dates:   2026-01-29
> 
> Abstract:
> 
>    This document specifies the use of KMAC128 and KMAC256 within the
>    Internet Key Exchange Version 2 (IKEv2), Encapsulating Security
>    Payload (ESP), and Authentication Header (AH) protocols.  These
>    algorithms can be used as integrity protection algorithms for ESP, AH
>    and IKEv2, and as Pseudo-Random Functions (PRFs) for IKEv2.
>    Requirements for supporting signature algorithms in IKEv2 that use
>    SHA3-256, SHA3-384, SHA3-512, SHAKE128 and SHAKE256 are also
>    specified.
> 
> The IETF datatracker status page for this Internet-Draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipsecme-sha3/
> 
> There is also an HTMLized version available at:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipsecme-sha3-01
> 
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://author-tools.ietf.org/iddiff?url2=draft-ietf-ipsecme-sha3-01
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at:
> rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts
> 
> 
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