Dear Khurram AA Certainly, we will dicuss this verse (10:87) in detail but first let us see what sister Hind say about it. This verse is very important to understand the reality of Aqeemus Salaat and Qibla particularly when we will study it in the light of Moses's Mission. He was sent to Pharaoh with one point agenda only and that was liberation of Bani Israel from the oppression of Pharaoh and the chieftains in his kingdom.
Moses was especially opted and trained by God to accomplish this mission. When he arrived in the palace he didn't talk to Pharaoh anything else. He straight forwardly said to him: " O Pharaoh ! I am the Messenger of one who is the Sustainer of the Universe. One for whom it is right to say nothing but truth about God. I come to you from your God with clear Signs. Liberate Bani Israel and let them depart along with me." (7;104-5). Now, the point to ponder is to find out the relation between Aqeemus Salaat and the Mission of Moses (as). We have to see what history teaches us about the struggle of Nations for their Independence from the forces of Oppression and Exploitation ? Do they achieve their independence by simply prostrating and worshipping God ? Or they strived hard with their all resources and did not hesitate to sacrifice their wealth and life. And what about those leaders who prepared thier people to fight despots and tyrants ? Did they just lead them in prayers or also educated and trained them to face the challenges squarely with intellect and might ? If we could find answers to these questions we can easily understand God's Agenda on this earth. What is His Mission ? What He wants us to do ? And, How His Mission is accomplished ? Bashir Abid --- Khurram Chaudhry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > salam Bashir, my God's blessings and favors be upon > you. > > you have stated a verse in which the word Qibla > comes alongside aqimusalaat. > > there are four translations that I put forth...and > not one has qubla the way we were discussing it > > > 010.087 > > Waawhayna ila moosa waakheehi an tabawwaa > liqawmikuma bimisra buyootan waijAAaloo buyootakum > qiblatan waaqeemoo alssalata wabashshiri > almu/mineena > > YUSUFALI: We inspired Moses and his brother with > this Message: "Provide dwellings for your people in > Egypt, make your dwellings into places of worship, > and establish regular prayers: and give glad tidings > to those who believe!" > > PICKTHAL: And We inspired Moses and his brother, > (saying): Appoint houses for your people in Egypt > and make your houses oratories, and establish > worship. And give good news to the believers. > > SHAKIR: And We revealed to Musa and his brother, > saying: Take for your people houses to abide in > Egypt and make your houses places of worship and > keep up prayer and give good news to the believers. > > KHALIFA: We inspired Moses and his brother. > "Maintain your homes in Egypt for the time being, > turn your homes into synagogues, and maintain the > Contact Prayers (Salat). Give good news to the > believers." > > > > now I am confused as to which part of the > translations relates to qiblatan? > > could you let me know? > > > > Bashir Abid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dear Khurram aa > > What does 'QIBLA' stand for in verse: 10:87 > > " Wa ohaina ila Mosa wa Akhihe un tabawa le qumekuma > be Misra bayutan wa ja'lu bayutakum QIBLTAN wa > Aqeemus > Salaat...." > > Bashir Abid > > > --- Khurram Chaudhry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > salaam Hind, > > > > you are ofcourse correct. when God pleases us with > > His Blessings, it is not without wisdom and the > > knowledge of current, past and future events. > > > > no doubt, you are but praising the practicality of > > this choice as the Qibla stands now for us as > > opposed to if it was jerusalem, or anything else. > > > > > > it is all as per His great plans....and He knows > > best why > > > > but for the purpose of our Din and practice..it is > > thus. > > > > no doubt even our existence may be symbolic of > > something we cannot imagine....but for us, the > > message is of practicality in which we are told to > > cooperate and assist as this is good for us. > > > > > > the qibla to our knowledge is that...an ease and > > practicality... > > > > > > > > Hind Rifai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Salaam, > > > > My understanding is that prior to the Revelation > > everyone prayed to a Qiblah- pre-Islamic poetry > has > > many such references- the choice of Qiblah was > > symbolic of the high value invested in the Qiblah- > ( > > thing or person). > > > > Jerusalem was the Qiblah of the Jews (and you > would > > agree the choice is symbolic and remains so > > nowadays) and it was for a period that of the > > Muslims - we are told- > > > > As you point out the Prophet was uncertain of his > > choice of Qiblah and Allah (swt) appointed a > > direction for the Muslims- this direction is > > practical on one level but also highly symbolic in > > an atmosphere where major contention against the > > Revelation was coming from the Jews as well as the > > Polytheists- > > > > IMHO, the move added significant historical and > > symbolic validation by linking the Muslims with > the > > Abrahamic line of Prophecy through the house built > > by Abraham on the one hand and appropriating the > > Masjid that had been a center of Polytheism to the > > benefit of the new Religion- > > > > And Allah certainly knows best- > > > > Hind. > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > salaam, > > > > i do know what you are saying and would agree with > > you. > > > > however, the statement of the qibla, while having > > possiible other meanings, does not in any way > > actually stipulate anything else than God making > > things easier and more pleasing for us. this is > > stated.... > > > > now what is inferred can be almost anything to > > anyone...thus the existence of sects. > > this shia infer the 12 tribes of israel as being > > sign of 12 imams and the joing prophethood of > moses > > and aaron as allowance for joint status of > muhammad > > and ali. these are all interpretations of > inference. > > > > > > to infer is human...and inference is a human > > capacity and not divine > > > > any inferences made can be called philosophy. > > > > with regard to Qibla, wheter it be physical (an > > argument I may now agree with) or not is something > > else....but the fact that God is wanting to apoint > a > > Qibla that please us after He sees that those who > > implore Him are searching the heavens is a clear > > statement. > > > > it is also stated that Abraham did the > > same....clearly written in the Quran is the > espisode > > of Abraham first lookin at the sun, then the moon, > > and being dissappointed. > > > > the need was to implore the Creator. > > > > and thus the first Shrine is established...! > > > > what do you think? > > > > regards, > > > > Khurram Chaudhry > > > > Hind Rifai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Salaam , > > > > It is not in blind faith that we read the Qur'an- > > reasoning is built into the Revelation which > invites > > to think, to contemplate, to look for signs and to > > learn from other beings- > > > > The Qur'an is read by humans who with the best > > attempt at objectivity still tend to find in it > what > > they know and what they are looking for- witness > the > > variety of sects and interpretations- to think > that > > through a literal/ ahistorical and materialistic > > interpretation, the meaning of a verse is > exhausted > > is not wise- indeed if such were the case, then > many > > such interpretations ( meaning of Jihad, status of > > women etc..) that you yourself object to would be > > valid- > > > > > > Hind. > > > > Khurram Chaudhry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > salaam, > > > > it is not in blind faith that we receive message > > from God. > > > > all decrees bring favor and justice to people. > > > > while there may be instances in the Quran where a > > something is commanded without a reason given (i > > will look for one), most instanced in teh Quran > > provide the wisdom. > > > > clearly in the Quran we read that God had > appointed > > a Qibla that pleases us....and not one that please > > God. > > > > it is in our pleasure and practicality that God > has > > appointed the Qibla as a single focal point for > > those who constantly implore God. > > > > surely this would please them as they would all > face > > in that direction. > > > > instances where it is not a pleasure such as > travel > > in space of lost or marooned, it is not a matter > of > > great concern. > > > > > > regards, > > > > Khurram Chaudhry > > > > > > Hind Rifai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Salaam, > > > > The fact that the various Fora decide that this is > a > > matter of practicality does not change the fact > that > > this is a divine decree whose entire meaning and > > significance cannot be summed up by human reason > as > > a matter of practicality- > > > > Are we to disregard the fact that this Qiblah > > happens to be the fist house built for the > > believers? why? > > > > Hind. > > > > Khurram Chaudhry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > peace GREG (and not george) and may God shower you > > with His Blessings. > > > > i think that if we take the argument of Alan > Border > > as well, who i think is > > doing a better job at this, then the naming of the > > Qibla was one of > > practicality. God saw that Men faced many > > directions...faced the heavens > > when imploring God. > > > > He therefore selected the Qibla that is pleasing > to > > us....it was very practical indeed for the entire > > ummah then. > > > > however, I trust that no one amongst us (greg, > alan, > > oqs forums, > > quran-first muslims) would claim any magical > secrets > > behind the facing of > > the Kaaba...it is done for the sake of > practicality > > and ease... > > for those lost in desert and withouth a clue..if > > finding the kaaba would > > not be easy or practical, then the qibla would > have > > lost its value for that > > circumstance and they implore God as they wish (in > > whichever direction is > > practical, e.g. to avoid the sun in their eyes of > > they are without shelter) > > this message is also being sent to the oqs list > due > > the nature of discussion and relevance of topic > > > > > > > > > much regards, > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry > > > > > > "G.Waleed Kavalec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote:Salaam > > > > I've already told you my name is not George. > > > > > > > > On 6/1/05, Khurram Chaudhry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > peace george, and may God shower you with His > > Blessings. > > > > > > i think that if we take the argument of Alan > > Border as well, who i think is > > > doing a better job at this, then the naming of > the > > Qibla was one of > > > practicality. God saw that Men faced many > > directions...faced the heavens > > > when imploring God. > > > > > > He therefore selected the Qibla that is > pleasing > > to us....it was very > > > practical indeed for the entire ummah then. > > > > > > however, I trust that no one amongst us (greg, > > alan, oqs forums, > > > quran-first muslims) would claim any magical > > secrets behind the facing of > > > the Kaaba...it is done for the sake of > > practicality and ease... > > > > > > for those lost in desert and withouth a > clue..if > > finding the kaaba would > > > not be easy or practical, then the qibla would > > have lost its value for that > > > circumstance and they implore God as they wish > (in > > whichever direction is > > > practical, e.g. to avoid the sun in their eyes > of > > they are without shelter) > > > > > > this message is also being sent to the oqs list > > due the nature of > > > discussion and relevance of topic > > > > > > > > > much regards, > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry > > > > > > "G.Waleed Kavalec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Walaikum asalaam Alan > > > > > > We face that way because Allah gave us a new > > Qibla in al-Baqarah > > > 2:144; and the actual Arabic of the ayat > > literally says 'qiblatan'. > > > > > > Why this is denied? I too do not understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/1/05, Alan Border wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assalamu Alaikum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand why you are going on & on > > implying that the Muslims > > > > worship the kaaba although many members in > the > > forum have tried to > > > explain > > > > to you otherwise. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The way I understand it we face the kaaba > > during Salaat for the following > > > > reasons: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a sign of unity among the Muslims > > irrespective where they live > > > > Imagine if there is no uniform point to face > > during Salaat, it will be > > > utter > > > > chaos in the masjids if each individual faces > > in whatever direction that > > > he > > > > / she wishes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We have to keep in mind that during Salaat we > > are in direct contact with > > > God > > > > Almighty. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AB > > > > Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > > salaam Greg. > > > > > > > > to actually face mecca from the city of > lahore, > > I would have to have my > > > head > > > > in the ground....or jump so high as be able > to > > actually face it. > > > > > > > > if you think that I am being too > > technical....then I can say that those > > > who > > > > actually want me to face the kaaba are being > > too technical... > > > > > > > > i am never really facing the kaaba if I am in > > Lahore.......and therefore, > > > if > > > > I actually dont face kaaba then I am not > doing > > anything wrong > > > anyways...so > > > > why face kaaba? > > > > > > > > > > > > and to fall prostrate has to do with the ego > > and not the head on the > > > ground. > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > Khurram > > > > > > > > "G.Waleed Kavalec" wrote: > > > > Salaam (again) > > > > > > > > The shortest direct path to another point on > > Earth is not that hard to > > > > figure out; by most people's understanding > > facincg in the direction of > > > > that path is facing towards that point. > > > > > > > > In the unlikely case that you are at the > > literal antipode of the Kabba > > > > then certainly "To Allah belong the East and > > the West; whithersoever > > > > ye turn there is the presence of Allah. For > > Allah is All-Pervading > > > > All-Knowing." > > > > > > > > The rest of the time there is a direction, so > > obey Allah and face that > > > > way in prostration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/31/05, Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > greg... > > > > > > > > > > let us say it is a physical qibla. > > > > > > > > > > in that case, you would have to live within > > the precints of the shrine > > > for > > > > your salaat to be accepted as it is only > there > > that you can actually > > > > physcially face the qibla. > > > > > > > > > > and if you say that it doesnt matter if you > > are not actually facing it > > > > (due to curvature of the earth), then it > > reallty doesnt matter and so why > > > > bother facing the qibla if it doesnt matter? > > > > > > > > > > being as confused as someone's sister is > > still not as bad as being > > > wrong > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > Khurram > > > > > > > > > > "G.Waleed Kavalec" wrote: > > > > > Walaikum asalaam > > > > > > > > > > Your confusion equals my own sister; I have > > seen this "Qibla is only > > > > > spiritual" hypothesis raise its head a > dozen > > times in the last few > > > > > years and I have YET to see it make sense > in > > light of clear verses of > > > > > the Qur'an. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/31/05, Hind Rifai > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Salaam, > > > > > > > > > > > > Am I missing something here? > > > > > > I thought that 2:144 clearly states the > > REASON for a qibla: > > > > > > > > > > > > " We see the turning of thy face (for > > guidance to the heavens): now > > > > Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall > please > > thee. Turn then Thy face > > > in > > > > the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever > ye > > are, turn your faces in > > > that > > > > direction. The people of the Book know well > > that that is the truth from > > > > their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what > they > > do". > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes- Pre- Islamic monotheists as well a > > polytheists prayed in the > > > > direction of a Qibla- and Alllah (swt) saw it > > fit that the Muslims have > > > one- > > > > Is it geographic or psychological- probably > > both- where is the problem? > > > > Please enlighten me :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Hind. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "G.Waleed Kavalec" wrote: > > > > > > Salaam > > > > > > > > > > > > So don't lose that focus. > > > > > > > > > > > > And don't reject the Earthly side of the > > Message EITHER. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "...Then is it only a part of the Book > that > > ye believe in, and do ye > > > > > > reject the rest?..." > > > > > > > > > > > > 2:85 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/31/05, Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > naturally the physical prostration and > > worship did exist > > > > > > > but the qibla is very earthly...in fact > > it is humane... > > > > > > > for the focus was on the shrine...on > the > > proviing of shelter and > > > > security. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but when you loose that focus...it > > becomes a mere idol for the > > > pagans. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "G.Waleed Kavalec" wrote: > > > > > > > Walaikum asalaam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Qur'an is clear that ACTUAL > DIRECTION > > was changed. There is > > > > > > > sufficient historical and archeological > > evidence of the old Qibla > > > to > > > > > > > prove that it existed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your attempt to undermine the Earthly > > meaning of the Qibla ayah has > > > > failed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/30/05, Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > salaam, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > there are no magic steps in salaat > > > > > > > > nor is there some magical diretion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in essense except for a certain > radius > > around Mecca, due to the > > > > spherical > > > > > > > > shape of the Earth it is impossible > to > > actuallty face towards > > > mecca > > > > in any > > > > > > > > physical state. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unless you are at the kaaba itself or > > nearby! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > otherwise you are usually pointing > > towards empty space.....if > > > you;re > > > > lucky > > > > > > > > maybe even a star! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan Border wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assalamu Alaikum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i do not think that Allah has ever > > asked to face any idol in our > > > > salaat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if the Kabbah is an idol according > > to you, where should the > > > > Muslims face > > > > > > > > when they perform their Salaat. When > I > > Salaat I mean the 5 times > > > > daily > > > > > > > > prayer that the Muslims perform. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AB > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > salaam, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i do not think that Allah has ever > > asked to face any idol in our > > > > salaat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan Border wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assalamu Alaikum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"the desecration of idols is not > what > > Islam has been > > > about....the > > > > idols > > > > > > > > >still stands in mecca..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the first masjid (if I am not > > mistaken) built to worship God > > > > Almighty is > > > > > > > > an idol according to your opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If God Almighty condemns so strongly > > against Idol worship why has > > > he > > > > asked > > > > > > > > us to face the biggest idol > (according > > to your opinion) in our > > > > salaat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AB > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a Muslim can not be an idol > worshipper. > > > > > > > > and idol worshipper cannot be a > muslim > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and a Muslim does no wrong in visitin > > the knolls and performing > > > the > > > > rituals > > > > > > > > as long as it is dedicated to Allah > and > > Allah alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the desecration of idols is not what > > Islam has been about....the > > > > idols still > > > > > > > > stands in mecca...and those who are > > Muslim, when they go to > > > Mecca, > > > > recognize > > > > > > > > only the power of the > Allmighty....and > > they enter the gates of > > > the > > > > temple in > > > > > > > > prostration to Allah (they enter in > > Sajda) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan Border wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assalamu Alaikum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"i do not think that any idols were > > destroyed. and the biggest > > > idol > > > > was > > > > > > > > >the cube itself...which still stands > > there and millions > > > prostrate > > > > towards > > > > > > > > >it." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I were to summarize your post. > > Basically what you are saying > > > is > > > > that the > > > > > > > > Kaaba was the biggest idol among all > > the idols that were > > > prevalent > > > > in > > > > > > > > pre-Islamic Makkah. Prophet (saws) > did > > not destroy / remove it > > > like > > > > the > > > > > > > > other idols as a sign of tolerance of > > other religions by Islam. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So the Muslims who are performing > their > > salaat facing the Kaaba > > > are > > > > > > > > basically worshiping / facing an > idol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Conclusion � Muslims are Idol > > worshippers is the gist of your > > > post. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i do not think that any idols were > > destroyed. and the biggest > > > idol > > > > was the > > > > > > > > cube itself...which still stands > there > > and millions prostrate > > > > towards it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > islam was tolerant and let the kaaba > > stand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the status of icons and idols that > are > > worshipped by other > > > relgions > > > > is much > > > > > > > > the same. they say that the God is > one > > and they claim that the > > > icons > > > > and > > > > > > > > statues are "focal" points of their > > prayers and devotions to the > > > > God. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the muslims also believe that it is a > > symbol of worship. that > > > this > > > > is how > > > > > > > > the prophets of Islam worshipped and > it > > is holy. the holiness of > > > the > > > > kaaba > > > > > > > > and the fact that it ismandatory to > > prostrate towards the kaaba > > > and > > > > to go > > > > > > > > around it in circles gives it the > same > > importance, if not more, > > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > > statutes and idols being worshipped > by > > other religions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > therefore, if Islam as preached by > > Muhammad (saws) was not > > > tolerant > > > > of idols > > > > > > > > then the kaaba would not exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the fact that the ancient meccan > > rituals of pre-Quranic times is > > > > still in > > > > > > > > existence shows us how tolerant Islam > > was at that time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khurram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alan Border wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Assalamu Alaikum > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ">the taliban were never acting on > the > > QUran. according the > > > Quran, > > > > it is > > > > > > > > >the taliban who should be dealt > with. > > read the Quran and you > > > will > > > > see >that > > > > > > > > God tells us about the talent He > > bestowed on solomon. solomon > > > >was > > > > know as a > > > > > > > > great sculptor in the Quran.....so > why > > would the Quran >want to > > > > destroy a > > > > > > > > sculpture of the budha in > afghanistan?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I may digress from the subject > under > > discussion. This comment > > > is > > > > not for > > > > > > > > Taliban or against Taliban. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I am not mistaken Kabba was filled > > with idols (statues) one > > > for > > > > each day > > > > > > > > of the year. After the Prophet (saws) > > returned back to Makkah the > > > > Kabbah was > > > > > > > > cleansed of all these idols & most > > probably destroyed. If the > > > > Prophet (saws) > > > > > > > > treated these statues as a great work > > of sculpture why were they > > > not > > > > > > > > preserved, perhaps in a museum for > the > > future generations > > > knowledge. > > > > I don't > > > > > > > > think that if we visit Saudi Arabia > > today we will be able to see > > > > these > > > > > > > > sculptures. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps somebody can clarify this for > > me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > AB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > salaam, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the taliban were never acting on the > > QUran. according the Quran, > > > it > > > > is the > > > > > > > > taliban who should be dealt with. > read > > the Quran and you will see > > > > that God > > > > > > > > tells us about the talent He bestowed > > on solomon. solomon was > > > know > > > > as a > > > > > > > > great sculptor in the Quran.....so > why > > would the Quran want to > > > > destroy a > > > > > > > > sculpture of the budha in > afghanistan? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > did anyone in afghanistan even > worship > > this statue? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God can condemen whom He wants. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was referring to what mere mortals > > are allowed to do. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as for God, if HE wants He can make > > everything perish on the > > > > earth....and > > > > > > > > still we would owe hm so much! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Khurram Chaudhry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nabi Bala Bafoofkit wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Khurram Chaudhry wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > salaam, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > insulting a faith is > forbidden....in > > fact THE > > > > > > > > > READING forbids cursing the false > > dieties of the > > > > > > > > > pagans even!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why then does the Koran insult > > christianity and > > > > > > > > Judaism as well as all pagan faiths? > > The Taliban was > > > > > > > > acting upon this strict reading of > > Islam when it > > > > > > > > destroyed the Buddahs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank God the Egyptians did not go on > a > > rampage of > > > > > > > > destruction of their heritage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bala > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? It is easier than you think. Click Here to meet a Child you can help. http://us.click.yahoo.com/sTR6_D/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/TXWolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> *************************************************************************** {Invite (mankind, O Muhammad ) to the Way of your Lord (i.e. Islam) with wisdom (i.e. with the Divine Inspiration and the Qur'an) and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided.} (Holy Quran-16:125) {And who is better in speech than he who [says: "My Lord is Allah (believes in His Oneness)," and then stands straight (acts upon His Order), and] invites (men) to Allah's (Islamic Monotheism), and does righteous deeds, and says: "I am one of the Muslims."} (Holy Quran-41:33) The prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: "By Allah, if Allah guides one person by you, it is better for you than the best types of camels." [al-Bukhaaree, Muslim] The prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) also said, "Whoever calls to guidance will have a reward similar to the reward of the one who follows him, without the reward of either of them being lessened at all." 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