Dr. Mohamed El-Sayed Habib, First
Deputy of the Chairman of the Muslim Brotherhood, affirmed that the
artificial uproar over the feared establishment of a so-called religious
state and the related allegations concerning a resulting threat to Copts
rights and to arts and creativity, following the big Brotherhood electoral
victory in the latest legislative elections in Egypt, is no more than an
artificial, unfounded controversy. He talked about the Brotherhoods vision of
the political and economic reform, how to bring about development in its
broadest sense, the Brotherhoods relations with the U.S. administration
and other topics that we discussed with him in this
interview.
Q: The latest period has witnessed a clear ascendancy of
the Muslim Brotherhood on the political scene as a result of which it
garnered 88 seats in the Peoples Assembly -Egypts parliament. What are the issues that the Brotherhood will be
interested in raising in the Peoples Assembly?
A: I would like first to confirm that the
presence in the Peoples Assembly of 88 Muslim Brothers will not
substantially affect the form or composition of the assembly where the
ruling party enjoys, in its own words, a more than comfortable majority.
The difference there is that the debate will be serious, the discussions
will be fruitful and constructive and the oversight and law-making roles
will be more distinguished. This could have a favorable effect on
the decisions of the Peoples Assembly, enhancing its effectiveness and
restoring citizens confidence in it. Regarding the main issues that
preoccupy the Brotherhood deputies, they revolve around three major
questions: First, the question of political reform and
constitutional amendment, bearing in mind that it represents the true and
natural point of departure for all other kinds of
reforms; Second, the question of education, scientific
research and native development of technology since this constitutes the
mainstay of resurgence and the basis for progress and
advance. Third, the question of comprehensive
development in all its dimensions: human, economic, social, cultural,
etc. In this regard, we cannot fail to emphasize the societal problems
from which the Egyptian citizenry suffers, i.e. unemployment, inflation
and increasing prices, housing crisis, health problems, environmental
pollution, etc.
Q: There are some
people who accuse Muslim Brothers of being against arts and creativity and
are concerned that your deputies in parliament will take an attitude
against everything implying culture and creativity. What do you
think?
A: In principle, we
are not against culture, arts and creativity. On the contrary, Islam
strongly encourages refining the public taste and confirms the need to
shape ones mind, heart and conscience in such a way as to bring forth
mans potentialities and prompt him to invent and innovate in all fields
of life. There is no doubt that the atmosphere of freedom is conducive to
a creative culture and creative arts, particularly if the latter express
the daily concerns of the citizen and the challenges he faces and if they
reflect the values of society and the public morality observed by people
of good nature and sound minds. On the other hand, the atmosphere of
dictatorship and despotism produces a kind of culture and art that is more
inclined towards abject trivialities, indecencies, depreciation of
peoples minds and deepening their ignorance. A nation that is capable of
innovation and creativity is necessarily capable of bringing about
resurgence, advance and progress. Some people consider that creativity is
born from the womb of suffering. Every society has peculiar cultural
identity and has its values, traditions and customs. I think it is the
right of the peoples deputies, or rather their duty, to maintain that
peculiarity and to play their role in bringing to accountability those
bodies or institutions that promote pornography, homosexuality or moral
perversion under the guise of creativity. It is essential to subject those
so-called creative works to examination and review by specialized and
expert people in various fields. Ultimately, it is the judiciary that has
the final say as to whether or not those works should be
allowed.
Q: Do
you have an integral program for the uplifting of the political and
economic situation of Egypt?
A: We
believe that the political reform is the true and natural gateway for all
other kinds of reform. We have announced our acceptance of democracy that
acknowledges political pluralism, the peaceful rotation of power and the
fact that the nation is the source of all powers. As we see it, political
reform includes the termination of the state of emergency, restoring
public freedoms, including the right to establish political parties,
whatever their tendencies may be, and the freedom of the press,
freedom of criticism and thought, freedom of peaceful demonstrations,
freedom of assembly, etc. It also includes the dismantling of all
exceptional courts and the annulment of all exceptional laws,
establishing the independence of the judiciary, enabling the
judiciary to fully and truly supervise general elections so as to ensure
that they authentically express peoples will, removing all obstacles that
restrict the functioning of civil society organizations, etc. We
cannot forget in this regard the need to make constitutional amendments,
including modifying the text of article 76 of the Constitution with a view
to ensuring equal opportunities and free and true competition among all
citizens, through the annulment of all impossible conditions that were
arbitrarily inserted in the latest amendment of that article - conditions
which have emptied that amendment from its substance. The reform should
also include changing the wording of article 77 of the Constitution so as
to limit the tenure of the presidency to just one four-year term,
extendable only by one more term; changing the articles which grant the
president of the republic absolute and unlimited powers and establishing
his accountability before the legislative council in view of the fact that
he heads the executive branch of government. As to our program
for reviving the economy, it comprises several basic
mainstays:
1. Reviewing the role of the public sector and the
privatization process; 2. Providing social welfare through the
subsidies scheme and the restoration of the institution of Zakat (poor
dues in Islam); 3. Reforming the States public finance (public
expenditures, fiscal policy, public borrowing, deficit financing); 4.
Correcting the monetary policy track; 5. Balanced opening up to the
world economy (liberalization of foreign trade, promoting exports and
foreign investments); 7. Intensifying popular participation, through
providing support to local councils and reinstating the rights of Islamic
Wakfs (religious endowments); 8. Seeking urgent solutions to the
unemployment problem till grow becomes self-propelled; 9. Supporting
the private sector as a spearhead for the realization of development
objectives; 10. Confronting corruption decisively; and 11. Catching
up with scientific and technological progress.
Q: The political reform program put forth by Muslim Brothers
does not differ from those of other political parties, what is then the
advantage of your program?
A: Muslim Brotherhood
shares most elements of political reform with other political and national
forces. This is due to the joint efforts that political parties and forces
have deployed during the past decades, which had culminated in the
adoption in 1997 of a common document for political reform called
Political Reform and Democracy. Certainly, there are differences
among political formations as to the priority to be assigned to those
elements, as well as the mechanisms to be employed. There is also a
semi-agreement among all political forces on the need to introduce some
constitutional amendments- as was mentioned earlier- although some
secularists want to change the Constitution in a comprehensive and drastic
way, including article 2 of the current Constitution which states that
Islam is the official religion of the State and that the principles of
Islamic sharia (law) are the main source of legislation. Such a change
would be in complete conflict with the desire of the entire people, who
are characterized by their strong religious attachment and their
willingness to be governed by the provisions of Islam. We must not,
however, forget the belief and morality dimension which the Muslim
Brotherhood insists on observing in their practice of politics as well as
its compliance with Islamic legal rules and precepts such as the
discipline of jurisprudence dealing with priorities and balances,
etc.
Q: Some segments
of the elite in Egypt and
abroad are worried that the Muslim Brotherhood seeks to establish a
theocracy. How would you react to that?
A:This concern stems from a wrong understanding of
the nature of Islam. To those who speak about a religious state, in the
same ecclesiastical meaning given to it in Europe in the middle ages, when
the church had hegemony over a States authorities, we wish to say that
the issue here is completely different. The Muslim Brotherhood has gone
through the latest legislative elections on the basis of a clear-cut
program under the slogan Islam is the Solution, given the fact that
Islam, as Imam el-Banna said, is a comprehensive program that encompasses
all aspects of life: it is a state and a country, a government and people,
ethics and power, mercy and justice, culture and law, science and justice,
resources and wealth, defense and advocacy, an army and an idea, a true
belief and correct acts of worship (Imam el-Bannas Teachings Message). In
fact, this conforms fully to the Constitution which states, in its second
article, that the States religion is Islam and that principles of Islamic
sharia (law) are the main source of legislation. We say that the State
that we want is a civic state, i.e. a state of institutions, based on the
principles of constitutional government. Imam el-Banna states: the
principles of constitutional government consist of: maintaining all kinds
of personal freedom, consultation and deriving authority from the people,
responsibility of the government before the people and its accountability
for its actions, and the clear demarcation of power of each branch of
government. When a scholar considers those principles, he would clearly
find out that they are all in full agreement with the teachings,
disciplines and norms of Islam concerning the system of government.
Consequently, Muslim Brothers think that the constitutional system of
government is the closest system of government in the world to Islam. They
prefer it to any other system of government. (Message to the 5th
Conference).
Q: Although the Brotherhood
refuses to submit an application for the establishment of a political
party under the pretext that the Political Party Committee is
unconstitutional, some people submitted similar applications which were
approved, what do you think about that?
A: Along with other political and
national forces, we seek to amend or change the Political Parties Law.
Consequently, the so-called Political Party Committee is unconstitutional
and acts as both adversary and judge. It creates more problems than
it solves and interferes in the internal affairs of parties in such a way
as to paralyze their movement and curb their effectiveness. This is one of
the reasons why those parties are weak and fragile. Furthermore, we dont
want to set up a political party to face the same destiny as existing
parties. The problem lies in the general political atmosphere and unless
that atmosphere is changed things will remain what they are now. Briefly,
we want the party to be established when people want to have it
established, just through notification.
Q: Your discourse
sometimes mixes between religion and politics which means that you are
neither purely religious people nor purely professional politicians. What
is the nature of that dichotomy?
A:Politics is part of religion. I remember
in this regard Imam al-Bannas statement that If Islam is something
different than politics, sociology, economics and culture, what is it
then? He also says A Muslim is not fully Muslim unless he engages in
politics, thinks over the state of affairs of his Umma and concerns
himself with it.
Q: Some Copts in
Egypt were so
alarmed by the recent rise of the Muslim Brotherhood that some of them
declared that they would leave Egypt as a
result! What is the nature of the Brotherhoods relations with
Copts?
A: We consider our Coptic brothers as
citizens enjoying all rights associated with citizenship and as part of
the fabric of the Egyptian society. We consider them as partners in the
country, in decision-making and in determining our future. Consequently,
the basis for filling public posts shall be efficiency, ability and
experience, not religion or beliefs. On that basis, we see no
justification or logic for the concern of some Copts over the rise of
Muslim Brothers. But this is due to the bad political atmosphere in which
the Egyptian people live and which has led to a general state of
apprehension and tension. It has been aggravated by the self-imposed
isolation of our Coptic brothers and their failure to integrate in public
life. From our side, we are conducting dialogues with them and are
trying to take them out of their isolation, by encouraging some
individuals among them to take part in the activities of syndicates,
conferences and symposiums dealing with public affairs. In addition, we
support some of them in legislative and syndicate
elections.
Q: From
time to time, the question of your relations with the U.S. surfaces.
Do you have any relation with them? Have you contacted them through direct
or indirect channels?
A:There
is no relation whatsoever between us the U.S. There is
no contact of any kind with them. We have repeated that several times
before. We are not a state within a state and we are very much interested
in reinforcing the independence and prestige of our State and in
respecting its institutions. We cannot permit anyone to compromise that
prestige nor can we allow ourselves to be a reason for that. If the
U.S.
administration wants to enter into a dialogue with us, they first would
have to get the approval of the Egyptian Foreign Ministry. And then what
are we going to discuss with them?
Q: Your attitude with regard to Jews
is not clear: at times you declare that you are not going to cancel
treaties concluded with them if you take power, and at times you say that
the holocaust is a myth, what is exactly your attitude?
A: The Zionist
entity (Israel) has
usurped the land of
Palestine, the
land of
Arabs and Muslims. No proud people can accept to stay put when
their land is occupied and their sacred places are assaulted.
Resisting occupation is required by Islam and sanctioned by international
law, agreements and customs. As to the Camp David Accord and the peace
treaty that were concluded by Egypt with the Zionist entity (Israel) in
the late 1970s, they are presumed to be thoroughly reviewed periodically
by international lawyers, strategists and national security experts,
taking into account the local, regional and international dimensions of
the question. The outcome of their review should be submitted to the
democratic institutions of the Sate for decision. As to the reported
statement describing the holocaust as a myth, it was not intended as a
denial of the event but only a rejection of exaggerations put forward by
Jews. This does not mean that we are not against the holocaust. Anyway,
that event should not have led to the loss of the rights of the
Palestinian people, the occupation of their land and the violation and
assault of their sacred places and
sanctities.
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