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> To: [email protected]
> From: an upset but trusted source
> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:39:03 +0000
> Subject: Re: [iText-questions] How to duplicate PDF text but rasterize
> graphics
>
> Mike Marchywka hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> The text is fixed or unrelated (no?)
>
> No. Not Even Close. You're not even on the right PLANET, much less the right
> ballpark.
Thanks I guess- so the text ends up being totally inseparable
from the artwork? I'm pretty sure this is just a word argument
too but I was after responses :) So I guess I'm still a bit
stuck ( I'll study the spec myself, no need to reply )
on what is being rasterized and what is intended to be
preserved. Your list of attributes is appreciated but
I'll have to go study all this as arguing in words
is pointless without specific examples.
>
> PDF (and SVG: your ignorance and ass-u-mptions are showing again) maintain a
that's what I'm here for but if you have clearer terms that's
fine too.
>
> PDF is all but write-only. It doesn't do any hand holding. Just opening a PDF
> up and finding how many pages it contains is No Small Task.
The same is true of many compressed formats- there are always
tradeoffs. I'm not claiming
that is inherently bad but if you only need to know how many
pages you have etc etc ...
> HTML and PDF are two very different beasts, with very different (original)
> purposes. Things that are trivial in one are impossible (or nearly so) in the
> other. Lots of things have been added to both to broaden their appeal, with
> varying degrees of success.
I guess this is exactly my point but it doesn't seem to be clear
to many pdf users exactly what they end up with. It does seem
to have made a good point of comparison and contrast.
>
> Take PDF Structure. Properly implemented, structure can do All Kinds of Spiffy
> Things. Only Adobe properly implements it (that I've ever seen), and even they
> mess it up. Check the MCIDs & parent tree for the second page of a Real Form
> from Lifecycle Designer 8, HA! Educational though. To really live up to its
> promise, structure needs to be more wide spread than it is. "Nobody" supports
> it so "nobody" tries to implement it, so "nobody" supports it... It has thus
> far failed to reach techno-critical-mass. It may never. Such is life.
>
>
That's all great I'm sure it can do everything but I still
can't use Reader to get the numbers out of the 1040 form I just
filled out unless I go get some other code. I'm just trying
to figure out what I need and eventually why there
is such a disconnect between the promises ( " properly implemented
.. all kinds of Spiffy Things") and the capabilities
or real documents ( why didn't the tax people "enable user rights" so I can
dump my form data from Reader?).
If this means there is an opportunity for me to create some
tools that's fine too but I really just want the information
from some specific PDF files...
>
> PDF puts appearance (and the consistency of that appearance) first. HTML puts
> meaning first. PDF has done various things to try to add meaning. HTML has
> done various things to improve its appearance (and I suspect you have Intimate
> Knowledge of just how consistent that appearance can be across different
> versions of different browsers).
I think I've been quite clear on this point too- nothing wrong
with either but Adobe seems to have many customers with information
that put it into PDF and end up only with pictures. That is
a point we seem to agree upon to varying degrees. I'm trying to understand how
much information is really in there.
Someone here earlier said
it was just glyphs and lines but it is clear that there can be more
to it than that. HTML was just one thing that came to mind
and from what you are saying maybe it would be more appropriate
for some current users of PDF unless all they care about
is appearance.
>
>
> Many of your attacks on PDF (lol!) seem to boil down to "It's not HTML". Gosh
No, my attacks or criticisms boil down to exactly the point you
made earlier- one is more for information the other for presentation.
Nothing wrong with either but, as you point out below:
> really? Thanks for clearing that up. They're different tools. Use the right
> tool for the job. And stop trying to hang sheet rock with a voltage meter. I
> mean, can you imagine how you look to someone who knows how to pick up a nail
> gun? Yep.
I guess I would claim that is how information providers look
when they try to pawn off PDF as an means of sending information
that is not inherently visual. I'm trying to be charitable to
PDF but am having a hard time seeing the merit of using pdf
( without the structure elements ) to contain many types of textual
information. The CAD example
from Adobe shows it is possible to put a lot of model information
into the file but if you just need a few words or numbers I'd like to be able
to get the word or numbers out.
I'd love to have a standard format that does everything. If
that is PDF fine but if it has limitations I'd like to
know what those are too and appreciate the comments :)
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