Keith and Bruno!
I've been trying to find the words and it seems that Keith has found them
for me.. I agree 100% with what he says.. I lurk here to gleam good
information for possible future projects. I have in the past asked question
only after I cannot understand/get the examples to work/find an answer in
the book (Of which I have both) to a problem I am having. You have always
helped.
I see everything you state in my son (who's 21 as of Wednesday). It seems
that this day and age a lot of people have the "give me what I want as I
don't want to figure it out myself" attitude. I shake my head at that. I
was brought up to figure it out yourself first, and then if all possible
outcomes end at a roadblock, seek help, but ask nicely, do not demand..
Glen Hamel
Auric Networks Canada, Inc.
570 Orwell Street, Unit 1
Mississauga, Ontario
L5A 3V7
Phone : 905.361.7621 x 2000
Fax : 905.274.3912
Email : <mailto:pe...@auricnet.ca> glen.ha...@auricnet.ca
<http://www.auricnet.ca/> http://www.auricnet.ca
From: Keith O [mailto:kuuji...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 9:45 AM
To: itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [iText-questions] About this mailing list
Hi Bruno,
> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 13:32:41 +0200
> From: br...@lowagie.com
> To: itext-questions@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [iText-questions] About this mailing list
>
> *Did you read the documentation before firing away a question?*
> *Did you make a standalone example that reproduces the problem?*
> *Did you browse the archives to see if the problem was already solved?*
I think no matter what mailing list/forum/other where there are programmers
(or any profession in general) no matter **what** measures the regulars take
as a group the answer to some/all of the questions above will unfortunately
be "NO". My first language was Perl - don't know if anyone else here
followed comp.languages.misc.perl a few years back, but some of the regulars
were **brutal**. But no matter how badly these people were mocked, how many
times they had their intelligence questioned, etc, some kept coming back for
more. And even for those who left there was always a new stream of
replacements. It's pretty much the nature of the Internet. (yes I'm quite
the cynic)
> this mailing list has been useful for many iText developers,
> but recently I'm seriously questioning if we shouldn't close
> the list down.
Doing that would be a disservice to the developers who **do** buy the book,
**do** try things before asking, and **are** considerate and follow the
simple mailing list rules. As I've commented before you, Paulo, and the
other iText core developers do an amazing job not only putting out a quality
product, but also on this mailing list. I'm sure there are many lurkers here
that feel exactly the same.
> In spite of the fact that several examples were provided
> PROVING that the allegation in the subject line was wrong,
> the OP kept on posting "it still doesn't work".
> It may very well be that "it didn't work" FOR THE OP,
> but that is NOT OUR BUSINESS. In that particular case,
> it worked for us, and we provided PROOF. The OP however
> didn't even bother to make a standalone example supporting
> his false allegation.
Actually I've been semi-active on at the ASP.NET forums lately (don't ask
why) and believe me the percentage of questions here that fit that bill are
minuscule compared to there. I know that might not make you feel better, but
everything is relative :)
> If he had done that effort, he would have realized the
> problem wasn't an iText problem, and he wouldn't have
> produced unnecessary noise on the list.
>
> [2] "Merging multiple pdfs":
>
> This is explained in great detail in the book.
> Whoever wants to evaluate iText should browse the examples
> http://itextpdf.com/book/examples.php and the keywords
> http://itextpdf.com/themes/keywords.php
> That is a FREE way to find out if iText meets the requirements.
> Whoever starts to work with iText should invest $35 to $60
> in the book. You'll save much more than $60 worth in time
> if you read the book. Before you ask: I'm not saying this
> to get rich. I get an average of about $3 for each copy.
I'm in no way defending people who don't follow the mailing list rules, not
think/try before they post, etc. But when it comes to buying the book (I
have both copies) you have to consider that in some countries and/or for
some people's economic status (think how bad the global economy is right
now), $35-$60 **may** be a serious investment.
> I can't hide that I'm very passionate about PDF and iText,
> and this works in different directions.
I think the regulars on the list know and understand this - being passionate
obviously shows in the quality of iText and lets you find the time to do all
of this. I for one, couldn't keep up with your pace :)
> My passion makes that I sacrifice time and energy whenever
> I see an interesting challenge (such as writing a book),
> but unfortunately, I also feel (almost physical!) pain
> whenever I see people posting code that is beyond repair
> BECAUSE THEY JUST DON'T TAKE THE TIME TO READ THE BOOK.
>
> That is passion. It's supposed to be a good thing, but
> apparently some people hate me for it.
If you were an ordained saint there would still be people who hate you. (my
cynical side is showing itself again) As long as you have your family and
friends, nothing else really matters :) There's no way one person can please
everyone.
> It is not my intention to make people look ridiculous
> (IMHO people do that to themselves; that also goes for me),
> I'm just begging: think twice before you post a question
> to this list. Don't say "it doesn't work" without any proof.
> Don't post code that looks as if it was generated at random.
> Don't say things such as "I don't have the Action book,
> I looking for quick solution" posted in the thread "Merge
> external resources (images and fonts) inside PDF Document".
> Don't people like that feel any shame when they post such
> inconsiderate remarks???
Couldn't agree more. I ask myself that all the time at work, along with
"don't people have any pride in their work??" Unfortunately the answer is a
resounding "NO"" for some people, it's just something we have to live with.
Anyway that's just my 2cents. It would be a waste to see all this knowledge
go away just because of the actions of a minority of people. If you ignore
them (understand it's hard for you) they will eventually go away. And
besides, if you shut down the mailing list I bet you would have so much free
time you wouldn't know what to do with yourself :)
keith
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