Hi, all. It's true that transitive verbs very often (most of the time?) correspond in Japanese and English. So you can often deduce when 'wo' will be used when you are learning a new verb. HOWEVER, it is not always the case, and 'ni' is much trickier to figure out by deduction. My own suggestion here (I haven't seen it elsewhere, but it seems so logical!) is to memorize the particles along with the verb.
Iow, when you learn "noru" (to ride) you learn it as "ni noru". Never mind that in English "ride" takes a direct object (e.g., ride the bus). In Japanese, it is "basuni noru" and that's all there is to it. When I enter vocabulary in my flashcard program, I enter the particles along with. Recent examples: ni zoku suru (to belong to, as for instance a kanji belongs to a particular bushu), soutou (= kanari, pretty much) but ni soutou suru means to correspond to. I remember encountering verbs that mean different things depending what particle is used, but I can't think of one at the moment. It may seem as if it would be a better strategy to figure out exactly how the particles work. But consider this. Japanese natives learn the language by assimilating examples and then figuring out how the rules work. Sometimes we can short-circuit that process by learning the rules right away -- but usually only when the rules are similar to ones in our own language. In this case, I think it's better to learn by examples and gradually develop a "feel" for the nature of these particles. A few thoughts about this: 1. You need a way to find out what particles go with what verbs. That means you need to have reibun -- example sentences. I adore Jim Breem's free dictionary which is at the base of so many wonderful free computer-based Japanese tools. BUT it does not contain reibun. Other tools, including the free Wakan, do have reibun. And many handheld electronic dictionaries do. And of course, if you are learning vocabulary by reading or listening, you can catch the words in situ and just make note of the particles used with them. 2. Even though the particles seem (to my mind) to belong to the verb, they seem to Japanese minds to belong to the noun in some sense. Therefore, if something comes between the noun and the verb (such as an adverbial phrase), the particle will be left "hanging" after the noun, usually followed by a comma, and the verb will appear in its usual place at the end. I suspect this is actually a pretty big context clue for native readers, since the only verbs that can possibly complete the thought are those that take the hanging particle. Anyway, that's my 2 cents worth! Shira --- In [email protected], "ai3131" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In [email protected], "RICHARD W WILCOX" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > There is no equivalent to wo in English, so above and beyond what > you've mentioned - it indicates direct objects. I think that "ni", > however, is most often translated as preposition "to" (but there are > a lot of cases where it is not - "ni moraimashita" should be > translated "received from").> > > "Ni" sometimes serves asa directional. More on this at a later time. > Now, could you expound on the use of "ni" serving the same purpose as > the prep. "From" in English? I know that one would say "Inu wa kimi > ni kawareta no?" (Wasn't the dog kept by you?"), but would it be good > to say "Inu wa kimi ni tabemono wo kuwaseta no?" (Wasn't it forced by > you to eat its food?) ? > > I would like to know more about the usage of "ni" in the context of > verbs. This particle has lots of uses in Japanese. > > > I can't think of a simple explanation to cover all of the uses of > ni and wo. You really need to just hear/see them in specific phrases > case by case to get a feel for how they are used.> > > I see. Now, for example, "tobu" (to fly) would be intransitive, since > the subject flies, but no one is receiving the action. (ex. "Hato ga > tobu" = The pigeon is [still] flying.) However, supposing that the > subject is flying through something, would we say something > like "Hato ga sora wo tobu", or "Hato ga sora de tobu"? > > For one, I know that "mamoru" (to defend) and "fusegu" (to fend off) > are transitive verbs; both verbs need an object for a complete phrase. > > > Btw, did you know that "case by case" is one of those English > phrases that the Japanese have adopted as part of the Japanese > language? > > > > Richard> > > No, I did not. I wonder, just how popular are English expressions in > Japan these days? > > - Arian I. > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Japanese_Language/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
