On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 9:10 AM, opinali <opin...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 28 abr, 00:43, Lloyd Meinholz <meinh...@javabilities.com> wrote: > > I am not a "major Linux enthusiast" but I am not "complaining about this > > (sic desktop) all the time" and I don't think it's garbage compared to > other > > desktop platforms. Out of curiosity, which "major Linux enthusiast" has > > complained that GNOME and KDE are garbage? On the contrary, I find long > time > > Have you ever heard of Linus Torvalds, for example? That fellow has > repeatedly knocked both GNOME and KDE, switched from one desktop to > the other in disgust and later switched back also in disgust. Look at > the Linux Hater's Blog, or even lwn.net (e.g. > http://lwn.net/Articles/299211/), > even Slashdot, etc. The Linux desktop stack is adequate for some > users, but it's clearly subpar to the competition. Notice that I don't > claim that Linux Desktop is "not good" - it's clearly good enough for > your needs, but even for you, I am very sure that the quality of > Linux's desktop stack was not among the top reasons to have chosen > Linux. ;-) >
Linus who??? The criticism I have read from him was him not liking gnome 'dumbing down' the desktop and that's why her preferred KDE. Then you could always choose xfce or openbox or whatever. Isn't choice wonderful? In spite of his criticism of the Linux desktop, do you think he would advocate using a Windows desktop instead? > Microsoft PC guys saying that Linux (specifically Ubuntu) is worth checking > out. Here is a reference to back my statement: < http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2342703,00.asp>. Yeah I especially like this part: "When I encountered a glitch, I > changed to a safe graphics mode that limited my screen to 1,280- > by-1,024 rather than 1,600-by-1,200—but this was no big deal". Linux > is still struggling with BASIC issues like having graphics drivers > that are reasonably reliable, feature-complete and efficient. Never > mind really advanced or consumer-centric features in the top of the > stack. > I use 1600x1200 on dual monitors and don't have this issue (without installing proprietary drivers) so I don't know what this issue was. The bigger point was that Dvorak has repeatedly said that Ubuntu (and MacOSX) were good alternative (maybe even preferable) to Windows. Even so, the article doesn't describe what sounds like a sub-par crippled desktop to me. > > I would really like to hear details of why you (or anyone else) thinks > NTFS > > is better than a Linux alternative, specifically ext3 since it's probably > > the most pervasive. What exactly do you think NTFS introduced in '93 that > > ext3 can't match? > > NTFS v1.0 had journaling, advanced security support, Unicode, large > file and volumes (for that time anyway), B+Tree dirs, extents, > pervasive metadata, multi-stream files. NT 3.5(1?) added transparent > compression. Win2K added quotas, transparent encryption, sparse files, > reparse points (building block for links and also many other features > like HSM and deduplication). Vista added full transaction support, > including distributed transactions. Meanwhile, ext3 is basically the > Jurassic ext2 + journaling, very bogged down by backwards > compatibility. What you really want is ext4 or btrfs, these are > promising but not yet ready/mature. Notice also that filesystems are > real beasts to mature - you don't want to put your mission-critical > data on the first kernel that boasts btrfs v1.0; you want to wait some > 3-5 years to do that. (Sun^H^H^HOracle's reputed ZFS, introduced in > 2005, is only recently being considered really solid - and they still > have some important issues to address, like volume shrinking - but > that's a different category [filesystem + volume management].) > > I'm not claiming that NTFS is perfect, it's got its own issues like > free space fragmentation; and ext3 is again good enough for many > users. But the whole thing was just one particular example of Linux > catching up, not being the overall high-tech leader that many people > claim it to be at least in the kernel. > Maybe you work in different environments than me, but this list of features is not something that has impacted projects that I have worked on. What has impacted me are things like case sensitivity. Does NTFS (or is it the OS) differentiate between lower and upper case yet? I had a lot of fun migrating a database from W2K to Linux when the person who created the database wasn't consistent in the case of database tables and columns. Things worked fine on W2K because it couldn't tell the difference between B and b. Not so well on an OS/File System that could. > BTW, don't drop unfounded comments on someones platform and then request > that this "not digress into an OS-war". Fair enough. > > A+ > Osvaldo > > > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 7:09 PM, opinali <opin...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 27 abr, 09:45, Christian Edward Gruber > > > <christianedwardgru...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah. That's awesome. What a wonderfully > > > > naive assertion. > > > > If linux was a platform with merit, it would have met some degree of > > > > success on the desktop... > > > > > If you mean Linux Desktop Platform (GNOME, KDE and all that including > > > its totally crappy video and sound stacks...), yes it is garbage and > > > even major Linux enthusiasts complain about this all the time. A good > > > kernel makes not a good desktop platform; and Linux is not even one of > > > the best kernels in many respects - let's not digress into an OS-war, > > > but the desktop market leaders are superior to Linux in important > > > aspects even in the core tech (e.g. see Linux's pathetic advanced- > > > filesystem story, it's not yet in the place that Windows was >10 years > > > ago with NTFS.) On the other hand, Linux _does_ have some degree of > > > desktop-type success in new niches like mobile devices, where Linux > > > _is_ clearly superior to the competition (surely beats the pants off > > > WinMob and Symbian). So, thanks for validating my argument. ;-) > > > > > > These kinds of statements are ridiculous, because they assert > > > > underlying causes of success that are simply not provably so. The > guy > > > > could be right, but the assertion of causation is without merit. > > > > > The simple fact is that great programming languages - at least when > > > combined with good implementation, tooling, libraries and other basics > > > - will always gain SOME respectable market share and have a long-term > > > story with a thriving ecosystem (even if a relatively small one, e.g. > > > Python). Objective-C never managed to have that kind of success, on > > > any platform where it did not benefit from _massive_ protectionism. > > > Ada is another interesting case: it was promoted and imposed for years > > > by the US govt, but failed to gain any traction outside the government > > > contracts that mandated its use or its satellite industries. Yet, Ada > > > was arguably a superior language if compared to Obj-C; you could use > > > that as evidence that quality=>success does not necessarily hold... > > > but life is more complicated that this, when I wrote "merit" I didn't > > > mean only a good formal design or powerful/innovative features, there > > > are other important factors, like some good alignment with the > > > technology and the problems of the developer community at each time, > > > the fitting in a larger ecosystem (e.g. LAMP prompting the 'P' > > > languages), etc. > > > > > A+ > > > Osvaldo > > > > > > cheers, > > > > Christian. > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2010, at 8:42 AM, opinali wrote: > > > > > > > If Obj-C was a language with > > > > > merits, it would have met some degree of success in other > platforms. > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "The Java Posse" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > javaposse+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > <javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com<javaposse%252bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > > > . > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "The Java Posse" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > javaposse+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > <javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com<javaposse%252bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > > To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > javaposse+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Java Posse" group. > To post to this group, send email to javapo...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > javaposse+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<javaposse%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/javaposse?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Java Posse" group. 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