Hi Victor,
As is so often the case the moderator interjection is likely to generate a
flurry of messages of debate well exceeding the offending topic.
In fairness I think I understand some of the moderator concern, past lists
have got way out of line with one or two complainers filling up inboxes when
what they should probably do is register their complaint and then shut up.
Most lists have a couple, they should probably have their own bashing forum.
Historically then there is precedent for control of the direction of
discussion to keep the list viable and the significant contributors
interested and contributing.
There then is also an arbitrary judgment of what constitutes inappropriate
content and tone of moderation. The key here being the root word,
"moderation". There are dozens of threads with dozens of messages which go
no where but seem to be tolerated. Well, I am not willing to moderate a list
so I figure you just have to live with the judgment of those who will.
Just why Freedom Scientific may or may not monitor this list is a matter for
some speculation. they didn't always. Duxbury and K1000 and WayFinder and
NFB Reader for example do maintain active lists for their products, who
knows why they have chosen that business model. A mailing list though is
also not a particularly valid method of judging product acceptability. I
would say it is more useful in determining how people use the product and
where they are running into trouble with it. Monitoring the "how can I"
messages is probably an indicator of convenience of use or understandability
of the interface or even the required features. The programming lists for
example are full of discussion on how to use and how to modify Jaws to
function with the IDE programming environments of programming languages and
database products none of which ever turns up on this list. It may be why we
get access to ITunes for example and not Visual Studio where people are
earning a living or why there isn't really good native access to Nokia PC
Suite never referred to here on this list but which must be a substantial
product base for blind computer and cell phone users.
Your points are sound however it is probably also reasonable that debate on
the business model be direct with Freedom Scientific. they will be counting
up the beans to decide where they will put their resources and what ever the
rest of us think about that among ourselves is not relevant. Beginning
almost immediately our next computers won't be 64 bit XP just as developing
new technology for vinyl records is redundant. There is still a lot out
there but fortunes will not be made in supporting it.
I am guessing though that the 64 bit debate was about to fizzle out anyway.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor" <victor.gouv...@rogers.com>
To: <jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] Freedom Scientific
Hi Rick,
I debated writing you off-list on this, but thought that others might want
to chime in on this also.
You stated in your moderator's message that Eric and other representatives
of Jaws join this list and others like it to get a feel for how their
products are being received.
I don't mind that, as I know several lists that have that going on also,
but the fact is, how can they get an accurate response to how their
products are doing out there if we're only going to discuss the program's
positive notes.
That would be like a company offering a feedback or opinions forum to
their website, then editing the content so that only positive opinions
were displayed.
The fact is, we were not debating FS company policy, we were offering our
opinion on the 64 bit version of Jaws, and it's lack of support for XP.
Should we all simply comment to the effect that yippee, let's all go out
and convert from XP to Vista, because that's where Jaws is heading?
Should we all simply forego all our computers in favour of a new computer
that will handle Vista, simply because we want to take advantage of the 64
bit architecture, again, because Jaws will not support XP's version of the
64 bit architecture?
I'm sorry, but I cannot sit back and let Eric think that everyone on this
list approves of this move, as it kind of leaves those of us who prefer XP
out.
If we want to give Eric an accurate representation of how Jaws is being
received by it's users, one should not allow him to gauge that reception
from this list, but solely from the feedback forms on their site, and only
from those who wish to give their opinions of their products.
I'm not sure if this makes sense or not.
All I know is that we cannot just allow everyone to let Eric think that
everyone on the list approves of this, and I think this is the easiest way
of showing this, not having to take the extra step of going to their
website, finding the feedback form, filling it out and pressing the submit
button, or what ever it's labelled.
If Eric monitors this list for how we, as a community receive FS products,
or Jaws in particular, then let him get the whole picture, and not just
the positive picture with all the roses and flowers.
Again, this is only my opinion, and I apologize if this goes against some
of your philosophies on the list, but I feel this action of limiting our
feedback in one sense, while allowing certain other feedback a bit of an
oxymoron.
I would also submit, that if we discuss the 64 bit version of Jaws, isn't
that also like discussing FS policy also, since we are only speculating on
what the new version offers?
I don't know, it's still early and I haven't had my coffee. Smile.
Victor
Co-moderator
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