hello,
yes some more posturing, why not :)
Richard, I believe Rickard is right on this one. I mean, sure yeah "a
container, not a server" sounds good but your pitch about openEJB vs jBoss
isn't accurate. We are squarely competitors. (<posturing> And we dust you
</posturing>). We are a container and a server. The optimization and
integration is tight, hence the speed and scalability.
No offense the siren of "easy integration" is naive imho... out there with
"code generating wizards". It might impress clueless managers and drooling
morons, but not us. Just the class loader integration is a pain in the b
with different APIs (servlet/ejb). One large vendor lead lost his cool down
here, another one is weak in the knees imho, and we at jBoss hold on just
because we hold on as a group. Don't get me wrong no part of it is "rocket
science" it is just that the sum of it in a server grows complex and you
can't just ignore that complexity. I pitty the commercial leads...
Re: the "industry will snap it on". Ok... we need to move much further along
before a BEA takes our containers (yours when it is ready, or ours today)
and endorses it in the fashion you describe. It has nothing to do with
technology. I just don't see BEA giving away so much credit $$$and the
market$$$. I just don't see that kind of endorsing happening, period.
Expecting the big guys will endorse us when there is a $9b market at stake,
is naive even silly imho. This is not the webserver field that was nuked at
birth, this is a potent yet adolescent industry.
You are preaching alone in the desert. The integration pitch is appealing
but I don't believe it, and the "industry will endorse us" oasis is pure
"mirage"... I wish it would be that easy! my friend, prepare for war out
here in the desert, cause this is just the beginning, we are now on their
radars. Instead, and I will reiterate our offer here publicly, we would
love to have you guys join forces with us and retool the container as needed
to bring it up to EJB 2.0 compliance for jBoss3.0. We have a working group
of battle-tested droids... all world class cyborgs and aliens... leverage
it, do it, join the alliance.
I see it all as complementary in the *personality* and *skills* sphere, in
the technology sphere I think you are wrong. See Rickard, might be the best
of us at "advanced ideas". I can work for days, concentrate and hold large
blueprints in my head and turn cute prototypes into a full fledged working
products. You have tremendous industry experience, and obvious designing
talent. Makes sense? please think about it. We need to grow and we need
your help in the 2.0 compliance for jBoss 3.0.
It takes more than just you, me or rickard to keep such an effort growing in
the *future*. We need and we have a group, the best group, top talent
everywhere on the list... every day someone "grade A" comes out of the wood
work and that is what gives me the most hope these days. We have a large
user base, people already replacing WL and WS with jBoss in production. We
also have some very advanced technology, a lot of work...
We are going to go "big-time", make no mistakes about it, our acceleration
is accelerating :) this is going to grow and as we grow, people like you
have a place and a role to play, this is a forum big enough for you and all
of us... it was too small back when, forget what happened, focus on the
future... please give it some thought, the door and the lists are open to
you
PLgC
marc
____________________________________
"The end of the earth is upon us,
pretty soon it will all turn to dust
So get up! Forget the past!
Go outside and have a blast!
-- live techno on FG 98, portugal--
___________________________________
|-----Original Message-----
|From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Richard
|Monson-Haefel
|Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 7:49 AM
|To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
|Subject: [jBoss-Dev] Re: [openejb-dev] will jBoss license change
|affectopenejb
|
|
|I have CCed jboss-dev so that they are aware of my response to
|your post on our
|mailing list.
|
|Rickard Oberg wrote:
|
|> So, to sum up the jBoss project has absolutely no intent on
|integrating with
|> the OpenEJB container system. Why? Well, why would we? AFAICT there are
|> really no reasons for us to use OpenEJB considering that the EJB
|container
|> architecture we already have is well-designed, stable, and performance
|> tuned.
|
|Well, what can I say. Since you are the one making all the
|decisions for the
|jBoss community it would probably do me little good to argue the
|point. I think
|my last e-mail states all the advantages for using OpenEJB quite
|clearly. We're
|not interested in pushing OpenEJB on any open source project that's not
|interested in using it. That would be a fruitless and wasted effort.
|
|OpenEJB will prove itself soon enough. Admittedly its not in
|first release yet
|(still in development for EJB 2.0) so we have a little ways to go
|before its
|ready for prime time. But with support for plugable security, transaction
|services, Connector API, persistence managers, JMS providers for
|Message Driven
|beans and adaptability to pretty much any application server,
|OpenEJB is going
|to be pretty hard to beat.
|
|Rather then argue about it, wait until OpenEJB is in final
|release. We'll plug
|OpenEJB into the jBoss framework and performance test jBoss with its native
|container against the OpenEJB plug-in. Regardless of the results
|I'll post them
|for everyone to see.
|
|Richard
|--
|Richard Monson-Haefel
|Author of Enterprise JavaBeans, 2nd Edition (O'Reilly 2000)
|Co-Author of Java Message Service (O'Reilly 2000)
|http://www.EjbNow.com
|
|
|
|
