we move or we die we move or we die we move or we die marc |-----Original Message----- |From: Lionel Siau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] |Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:59 AM |To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; jBoss Developer |Subject: I don't think it is sustainable ->Re: [jboss-docs] Future of |group, Documentation | | |Hi Marc, | |I think the aim is great and in the right direction however, u don't have a |defensible business model (for the lack of a better term). | |If it is free in source, how are u going to prevent pple from printing for |themseleves on the site(jboss is for programmers who properably now how to |setup their printers...) and very soon, have pple putting up downloadable |versions they hacked from the html pages or just pirated off their license |cpy. Who are the pple who would buy a cpy of the manual? What are their |estimated numbers? Not many I'm afraid. | |Just my 2c. | |Lionel | | |Lionel |----- Original Message ----- |From: "marc fleury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> |To: "Jboss-Docs@Egroups. Com" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "jBoss |Developer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> |Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 10:49 AM |Subject: [jboss-docs] Future of group, Documentation | | |> Hello folks, |> |> after much speculation, false alarms and rumors, I would like to |officially |> announce what we are planning to do with the new documentation. |> |> The board has been at it for the past 2 month almost, since it became |clear |> that JBoss needs to grow even more that documentation is lacking and that |> management of our growth requires some capital. |> |> For example it becomes clear that while our growth is still pretty much |> exponential, we need documentation, a good measure of QA, packaging and |> release management. These are better done with a small full time group. |> |> We want to achieve "professional" quality in all our aspects. That |includes |> things that normally open source groups don't do well, among others |> "documentation" and it is a small company in the making. |> |> One thing we would like to achieve very much is self sustainance, one |where |> the group of Open Source Programmers can generate enough of a revenue to |> keep the various aspects of the project running at a "professional" |quality |> grade. |> |> We (the board) have 2 requirement |> 1- Keep JBoss org "free". In fact JBoss is becoming an Open Source |> Jaugernaut all by itself, the reason? the distribution! it is quality it |is |> free! We are totally dedicated to our Open Source roots. |> 2- Generate revenue from within the group for and by developers, |the group |> of Open Source Programmers that we have could be a self sustaining |> structure. Structure the Open Source Programmers for profit. |> |> 2 is in constrast with RedHat that employs developers and Apache where |most |> jakarta guys are at SUN/IBM or do something else (brian |behlendorf). Java |> is a rich enough field that we can at least think about the |possibility of |> sustaining part of the developers through self generated revenues. |> |> So THE GOAL OF ALL THIS is to generate enough money that all the |developers |> have an incentive to work and some of us can grow the free base. |> |> How does it work while we keep it free? |> |> here goes: |> |> We are talking about the specific case of the documentation. Right now |the |> doco is really out of whack, there are parts that are out of date, plain |> wrong and generally speaking they aren't maintained. |> |> We are going to write the documentation in the famed user manual, pretty |> much from scratch reusing what we can and when we have permission. The |> result WILL BE FREE ONLINE. WILL BE FREE IN CVS. |> |> So all the documentation we produce will be available in cvs and on the |> website for you to use. What we will do is also offer "downloadable" |> versions for a moderate fee (we are thinking $10-$30). |> |> These version can be installed locally and even printed since one of the |> downloadable versions will be PDF. You can get it from CVS if you are |fancy |> enough, but we offer the for pay download for everyones convenience. It |is |> targeted at the "casual user" that doesn't want to go to CVS. |> |> The revenues go to the "GROUP OF OPEN SOURCE PROGRAMMERS" that wrote the |> documentation in the first place. The "GROUP OF JBOSS |PROGRAMMERS" shares |> the revenues depending on their contributions. |> |> This is "JBOSS GROUP" all of you that write doco are |automatically part of |> this "virtual company". There is a 30% cut that goes towards the |maintaince |> of JBoss org. The rest 70% is shared among authors. |> |> Is this clear? This is for documentation only. Do NOT EXTRAPOLATE to |> JBossServer itself. In fact the goal of all this is to keep JBoss.org |> development and management absolutely FREE. THIS IS DOCO ONLY. |> |> Write doco get paid. |> |> ANNOUNCEMENT: |> |> We are going to restart a professional grade documentation effort under |the |> "write doco get paid" program. It is co-written, available for free for |> browsing and in cvs and available for download from JBoss for a fee. |Profits |> are shared among writers, a 30% goes to running JBoss. |> |> Simple. |> |> So I will try to spend a couple of days really going in details of the |> status of the spec and getting you guys on board. Everything counts , |> writing, infrastructure, XML Docbook maintainance, review, patches etc. |> |> FAQ: |> |> Q: Does the same apply to JBossServer? Do we offer it for $$ |> A: No, in fact the goal is to keep JBossServer absolutely free while at |the |> same time achieving "professional quality" grade in our products. |> Professional Grade LGPL by financing a professional core. |> |> Q: What is JBoss Group? |> A: JBoss Group is a virtual company representing the Open Source |Programmers |> of JBoss. As revenues are shared among developers and |contributors, JBoss |> Group distributes these. JBoss Group is also an umbrella for marketing |more |> traditional services such as Training. JBoss Group is a for profit |company. |> |> Q: Who takes care of billing? |> A: We are investigating various venues, we will probably outsource the |> credit card handling to a 3rd party shortly. JBoss Group is the virtual |> company that aggregates the revenues and distributes to the members. |> |> Q: I am a developer/writer, how does this move affect me? |> A: If you are a developer you are free to not pay attention to this AT |ALL. |> It won't affect you in any way. You can however decide to write some |> documentation and bring it under the "write doco, get paid" program. The |> documentation you write, if integrated in the main manual, is then |marketed |> and distributed through JBoss' websites. It is also available for free |> online for browsing and in CVS just like it is today. Finally you profit |> share with us. In short, your life isn't changed at all, only now you |might |> get paid. |> |> Q: I am a user of JBoss technology, how does this move affect me? |> A: If you are a user, you will notice that this moves makes your life |> better. First and foremost the documentation will be up-to-date |since now |> developers have a monetary incentive to produce quality uptodate |> documentation, it is also edited and maintained in a professional grade |> manual. Better yet, it is available for free online and in cvs. By |popular |> demand we offer a pre-packaged version for you to download. This will be |> HTML and PDF. |> |> Q: I am a writer how do I participate? |> A: if you are a writer you have already been contacted for permission to |> include the documentation in the new manual. If you are a new |contributor |> please refer to jboss-docs for submittal of documentation bits. |> |> Q: How is the "profit sharing" decided? |> A: It is proportional to your contribution. This is a bit "subjective" |and |> not linked to "words" or "pages", but takes into account things as |disparate |> as "pure contributions" to "XML Docbook maintainance". The |board of JBoss |> will approve the percentage distribution every other month. |> |> Q: What is the price point you envision? |> A: $10-$30 for the end user documentation, $20-$40 for the developer |> documentation. |> |> |> PLgC |> |> Marc |> _________________ |> Marc Fleury, Ph.D |> [EMAIL PROTECTED] |> _________________ |> |> |> |> --------------------------------------------------------------- |> Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] |> Unsubscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] |> Archive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jboss-docs/ |> |> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ |> |> | | |------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-~> |Make good on the promise you made at graduation to keep |in touch. 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