> according to orthodoxy nothing was created by a human > Disagree- there is a definite distinction in the Orthodox tradition between d'rabbanan (from the rabbi's) and d'oraitha (from the written or oral traditions).
----- Original Message ----- From: "avi finegold" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "World music from a Jewish slant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 6:49 PM Subject: Re: kol isha in action > > --- Lori Cahan-Simon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I don't think that using kashrut is a parallel > > example. If you go to an > > event with kosher food, everyone can still eat it. > > Kashrut is spelled > > out in the Torah. > > all it says int he torah is that you should not cook a > kid in its mothers milk. > Kol Isha was created by a human. > > according to orthodoxy nothing was created by a human > > > > Kashrut has made > > sense for many reasons in many times in history. > > WHOA! im a rabbinical student and im still grappling > with the notion of kosher being a logical thing to > follow. i even have a hard time understanding why i > should not eat fish and meat on the same plate (which > IS a rabbinically decreed custom). that doesnt mean i > dont do it. a central tenetof orthodox philosophy > stress the notion that regardless of there being a > reason for doing it or not, it should still be > followed. of course this isnt to say that we shouldnt > try and understand why a law exists or not. > > Kol Isha does not make > > sense. > > maybe according to you, but many many orthodox people > would argue with you. > > I understand that many people abide by it. > > Shall I say that > > people of African descent and women were not allowed > > to vote in this > > country by law, and that people abided by it and so > > we should respect > > that and not try to change it? > > > thse were laws which were made by humans, which make > them ultimately fallible and open to change, unlike > orthodox halacha which is divinely ordained and not > open to revision. > > > It was wrong. > > Again, I challenge > > someone to tell me how my woman's voice offends, > > aside from stating that > > it is Halacha. > > Lorele > > > > > without getting into it too much as this has gone on > long enough (though im sure itll come up in a future > email) orthdox halacha would say that the voice of a > woman is a turn-on to males and that therefore men > should not be listening to it. (note that the > prohibition isnt for women to sing its or men not to > hear which does not silece half the population as one > might argue...) > > > avi > > > > avi finegold wrote: > > > > >--- Dan Jacobs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >>Hi, > > >> > > >>It's not a custom it's Jewish law (a law that is > > >>offensive and > > >>un-necessary), > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >youre right about the law part but what makes you > > >think you have the right to pass judgement for > > >orthodoxy on relative offensiveness and > > unnecesariness > > > > > >that may be the case for you but plenty of people > > dont > > >find it to be the case. > > >as contentious an issue as it may be, many people > > >still view it as an integral part of halacha, > > whether > > >or not you approve of it. for most people this > > doesnt > > >interfere with their everyday life and they dont > > shove > > >it into peoples faces, they simply dont go to > > events > > >where this might pose a problem for them. now you > > have > > >to admit that when someone is organizing an event > > they > > >have to take into consideration that they have to > > >accomodate any people that they are inviting to the > > >event. im not talking about people they might sell > > >tickets to, i refer here to people whom theyve > > >specifically said that they would like to see there > > as > > >a guest of honour or something else along those > > lines. > > >why cant you see it as a case of some people eat > > >kosher and therefore when those people go to events > > >people provide appropriate food solutions for them. > > in > > >this case some people cannot allow themselves > > >halachically to hear a woman singing and therefore > > a > > >concession must be made to ensure that no one will > > >feel uncomfortable. > > > > > >im not saying that i think its a wonderful or > > terrible > > >halacha im just saying that some people (regardless > > of > > >their personal viewpoint about the halacha as > > well), > > >abide by it and its not right to state that they > > are > > >in the wrong just for being orthodox the way they > > >believe orthodoxy is meant to be. > > > > > > > > >avi > > > > > > > > > > > >so you need to give it a little more > > > > > > > > >>respect than that. > > >>The best way to handle a situation like this is to > > >>educate yourself and others. > > >> > > >>The fact is that there are strong halachik (Jewish > > >>Legal) arguments > > >>against Kol Isha, i.e. that listening to a woman's > > >>voice is not a problem, > > >>understanding what these are and being able to > > >>present them when necessary > > >>would be a more constructive approach then being > > >>dismissive. > > >> > > >>Cheers, > > >> > > >>Dan > > >> > > >>On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Eliezer Kaplan wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>>>Love, > > >>>> > > >>>>Rosa Parks > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>Maybe that's what's gotta happen. Maybe some > > >>> > > >>> > > >>community needs to have it in > > >> > > >> > > >>>their face and take it upon themselves to realize > > >>> > > >>> > > >>that in our times living > > >> > > >> > > >>>in our world this is ridiculous and to set a > > >>> > > >>> > > >>precedent for changing the > > >> > > >> > > >>>custom. And why do I feel so much like that old > > >>> > > >>> > > >>Steve Martin character on > > >> > > >> > > >>>Saturday Night Live saying it? > > >>> > > >>> EK > > >>> > > >>>www.zelwel.com > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> - Dan Jacobs > > >> - 07956 246 659 > > >> > > >>---------------------- [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>---------------------+ > > >>Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network > > >>http://shamash.org > > >>A service of Hebrew College, which offers online > > >>courses and an > > >>online MA in Jewish Studies, > > >>http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > >> > > >>* * FREE JEWISH LEARNING * * > > >>Shamash invites you to join MyJewishLearning.com, > > a > > >>comprehensive, > > >>objective, authoritative and interactive learning > > >>resource in all areas > > >>of Judaism. Free membership via > > >>http://www.myjewishlearning.com/shamash > > >>---------------------- [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >>---------------------= > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >===== > > >the whole world is a narrow bridge > > > and the main thing is to have no fear -rabbi > > nachman > > >the numerical equation of ahavah in hebrew is 13(a > > prime number) > > > be'ahava is 2(bet) x 13 > > > when two complete and unbreakable (prime) > > loves come together in love(be'ahava), you have 26 > > > this shows that god (equivalent to 26) enters > > into a relationship only if there is a complete > > unbreakable selflessness to the other -avi > > finegold > > >and one one hand he tattooed the word love/and on > > the other the word fear -bruce springsteen > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up > > now. > > >http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > You can now hear Lori's new CD, Songs My Bubbe > > Should Have Taught Me; Vol.1: Passover, at: > > http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/lcahan Only $15 & postage. > > Email me for more info. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > ---------------------- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ * * FREE JEWISH LEARNING * * Shamash invites you to join MyJewishLearning.com, a comprehensive, objective, authoritative and interactive learning resource in all areas of Judaism. 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