Thanks. That's good info. -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Moore via Jfw Sent: Monday, November 09, 2015 5:34 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: David Moore Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!"
Hi Londa, Yes I have. It works very well in IE and Firefox, but with Chrome, it is much better for some reason to have forms mode switched to manual. I tried Chrome with semi forms mode, and for some reason, the search edit box is not always there. With manual forms mode on, the search edit box is always right there and when you press enter to go into forms mode, you can edit what you put in the search box. Take care. -----Original Message----- From: Londa Peterson via Jfw Sent: Monday, November 9, 2015 10:32 AM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Londa Peterson Subject: RE: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!" Hi David, Have you tried the new semi-auto forms mode yet? -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Moore via Jfw Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 2:42 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: David Moore Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!" Hi, Chrome has changed a great deal in the past two years. It is a different experience totally using it now compared to even a year ago. I will have my tutorial ready this week after I look at many different web pages and work with it in many situations. I can tell you that all the navigation html commands in JAWS work in chrome. Navigating a web page is very similar to working in IE or Firefox. One thing I have found out is that Chrome works much much better if forms mode is set to manual. If forms mode is set to automatic, JAWS keeps going into forms mode on Chrome. You can set this temporarily in Chrome, and change it back. Take care and I will have much more for you this week. -----Original Message----- From: Kramlinger, Keith G., M.D. via Jfw Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2015 12:36 PM To: 'The Jaws for Windows support list.' Cc: Kramlinger, Keith G., M.D. Subject: RE: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!" I had a terrible experience with Chrome a few years back, and have been hesitant to try again, but probably will once I review and thoroughly understand David Moore's podcast when it becomes available. I certainly hope FS will take Chrome on to improve its workability with Chrome. Does anyone have a sense of what Google's commitment to accessibility is? I've been under the impression it's casual at best. Thanks, Keith -----Original Message----- From: Jfw [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Moore via Jfw Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2015 12:07 AM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: David Moore Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!" Hi Dennis, I am the original person who said that Google Chrome is totally accessible. My name is David Moore. Well, I didn't litterly mean totally accessible, and I was very excited after working with Chrome after two days. I got carried away. When I saw just how much more accessible Chrome has become in the last two years, I wondered why the blind think that it is still totally inaccessible. A lot of Chrome is accessible, much more than the blind realize. Dennis, It is because of what you said that I have mentioned Chrome on so many lists, and I am encouraging the blind to try it to see for themselves just how far its accessibility has come. It still needs work, I know. But I am asking the same question. Why is Freedom Scientific not putting as much work into making Chrome accessible since it is by far the most used browser in colleges and employment. It makes me wonder and I want the blind to think about this question. I will keep quiet and just leave it right there. By the way, Chrome is just as accessible with NVDA as it is with JAWS. Also, the more tools you have the better off people are. Google Chrome may not be to the point yet to make it your default browser, but it is a good third browser to use. It is good to have two or three screen readers as well. When it comes to streaming TV channels and so on, Chrome beats IE and Firefox hands down. It never crashes once on me. I use Chrome more than IE, because IE crashes almost every time I stream video with it. It will not even open a large web site. Chrome opens large sites twice as fast as IE. Many web sites are accessible with Chrome. I am glad people are realizing it. If I caused a few people to try Chrome, I have done my job which is to help all and bring what is hidden into the light. I am contacting Freedom Scientific on Monday and asking a lot of questions about making Chrome totally accessible and why it hasn't been done already. I urge all of you to do the same. Enjoy Chrome for what it can do, not for what it can not do. Take care all, and thank you Dennis for saying what you did. -----Original Message----- From: Pat Byrne via Jfw Sent: Saturday, November 7, 2015 7:53 PM To: The Jaws for Windows support list. Cc: Pat Byrne Subject: Re: Assertion that "Chrome is not ready for prime time!" Dennis, Very well said. Pat ByrneAt 06:33 PM 11/7/2015, you wrote: >Hello Gerald and others, >At Harvard and I think Stanford, Google Chrome is used in the >programming classes for web development, so they apparently do not >share Eric Damery's opinion as presented in the email post. I would be >curious to know how recently Eric made that statement. Chrome, at least >for sighted programmers is a very important program because it can >process the HTML source code from a webpage and present it in a very >"human readable" form, as opposed to simply displaying the source code >directly in its raw form. As David Malan who teaches CS50 and other web >programming courses at Harvard explains in the first class, IE and Firefox >do not provide this capability. >He doesn't care what browsers students choose to use, he simply >explains that it will be much more difficult if one does not use Chrome >to do internet programming, because of its built-in tools. > >Perhaps Eric meant that Chrome is not ready for prime time for blind >people using screen readers. If so, this is obviously very bad news for >blind programmers taking CS courses at Harvard and Stanford, since >their performance will be measured against sighted students in their >classes who are using Chrome, and the blind student's productivity will >be seriously diminished and their ability to complete their assignments >on time made almost impossible without Chrome. > >Likewise, if employers are using Chrome for the same reason as David >Malan, and blind programmers can't use it, they are not going to be >hired. This isn't discrimination. The employer would be correct in >concluding that the blind programmer cannot do the job as quickly and >efficiently as a sighted programmer, so to hire the blind programmer >would mean the employer is paying the same money for less software output. > >I had not looked at Chrome for almost 2 years since I tried to use it >in a programming course, and at that time I found it virtually >inaccessible using Jaws. When I downloaded it again 2 days ago after >reading an earlier email stating that it is now "totally accessible," I >was very pleased and surprised at the current level of Chrome's >accessibility. Prior to this, I believed their was something about the >way Chrome was programmed that made it inherently incompatible with >screen readers, but this is clearly not the case. > >If Eric actually believes "Chrome isn't ready for prime time", then >this would explain and justify an anemic effort by Freedom Scientific >to support Chrome, since no company would spend development capital to >support a product which it believes is never going to take hold, or >won't mature for a substantial time. > >But corporate decision making and assignment of priorities most times >falls somewhere between mysterious and inexplicable, and is too often >motivated by attempts to gain market advantage, or based on hidden >corporate alliances. Who can know? It has become a common practice for >salesmen to disparage products they don't sell or can't support, as >well as disparaging their own older products when they are now trying to >sell their new ones. > >I hope Jaws users will download Chrome, try to systematically find its >deficiencies with Jaws, and send this information to Freedom Scientific >so that Chrome can be made as close to 100 percent accessible as is >possible using a screen reader. for us as blind people, software like >Chrome is a matter of employment instead of unemployment. When I >obtained my MS in computer science in 1984, virtually all computer jobs >were available to me, because all programming environments were 100 >percent accessible to me using my Braille computer terminal and an Optacon >to fill in the gaps. > >Today, so much software is inaccessible at a level necessary for >employment, that it has become increasingly difficult for us to find >and keep jobs of any sort, because most jobs involve using a computer. >And as many on this list know through personal experience, that which >is accessible today, can easily become inaccessible tomorrow simply >because a vendor chooses to release a software upgrade, with >unemployment being the result. When the blind employee can no longer >perform his job, what is the employer's alternative? The employer is >powerless to fix the problem, since they don't write the application >software or the screen reader programs. >Even if the employer doesn't wish to upgrade because of the effect it >will have on the blind employee, a small employer will ultimately have >no choice because the software vendor will stop support for the old >product to force the business to buy the new product. > >I think it is critical that we as customers let Freedom Scientific know >what products we need to be made accessible, otherwise they can only guess. >This isn't their fault. By definition, they work for a small software >company, so the jobs they see and experience are in that environment, >and their priorities are established from that vantage point. If your a >blind lawyer and you cannot get or keep a job at a mega law firm >because the new law firm billing software is not accessible, this is >something FS won't experience and won't know about. Likewise, if you're >a financial advisor and you cannot get or keep a job at a Wall Street >firm or mega bank, FS will not know what job critical software must be >made accessible unless they are told. These are examples of the places >where jobs are located, and we cannot get and keep those jobs if we are >unable to use the software on which the jobs are based. Last time I >checked into this, most of the corporate networks for these large firms >are still running Windows XP, very old versions of MS Office, and the >inaccessible applications they are running are not Microsoft products. >I would be curious to know how much money and effort FS has spent on IE >11 accessibility as opposed to Google Chrome. > >Just my 2 cents worth, but accounting for inflation may be worth 4 >cents, though probably not quite that much. > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald Levy via Jfw" ><[email protected]> >To: "The Jaws for Windows support list." <[email protected]> >Cc: "Gerald Levy" <[email protected]> >Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 8:35 AM >Subject: Re: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites > > >> >>Which explains why Eric Damery still advises JAWS users to avoid Chrome. >>As far as he is concerned, Chrome is still not ready yet for prime time. >> >>Gerald >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- From: Adrian Spratt via Jfw >>Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2015 10:51 AM >>To: The Jaws for Windows support list. >>Cc: Adrian Spratt >>Subject: Chrome and bookmarks/favorites >> >>Hi. >> >>I can't get favorites, which Chrome calls bookmarks, to work as >>quickly as they do in IE. Here's what I've figured out so far. I hope >>the gaps can be filled in. >> >>You get to bookmarks by pressing alt for the menu, then arrowing down. >>Press enter on bookmarks. Here, I'm told that the shortcut >>control-shift-b brings up bookmarks, but that shortcut isn't working >>on my system when I'm outside this menu. Each time I have to go through >>the menu. >> >>In IE, I press alt-a to bring up my favorites list, and first-letter >>navigation works. I can't find anything this simple using Chrome. >> >>One item in the bookmarks submenu allows you to import favorites settings. >>I clicked on this, tabbed through the options, and was told at the end >>that I was successful. However, nothing seems to have been imported. >> >>Any ideas? >>-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >>scrubbed... >>URL: >><http://lists.the-jdh.com/pipermail/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com/attachments/ >>20151107/1d0106c9/attachment.html> >>_______________________________________________ >>Jfw mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Jfw mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Jfw mailing list >[email protected] >http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list [email protected] http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list [email protected] http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list [email protected] http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list [email protected] http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list [email protected] http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list [email protected] http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com _______________________________________________ Jfw mailing list [email protected] http://lists.the-jdh.com/mailman/listinfo/jfw_lists.the-jdh.com
