Dear Moderator, Entering into discussions, including on religion, based on facts and rational logic is welcome on such a listserve. However, my observation is that a certain section of people are bent on using this listserve to promote a certain extreme ideological stand which is often hurtful and insulting to other members of the listserve, specially regarding their religion. I am a Hindu, yet I feel embarassed about the manner in which bashing of evangelists and Islam has taken place on this listserve by certain members in very provocative manner. We must understand that democracy can only work when identities and religious values of different constituents are respected and tolerated. What goes on in this listserve far exceeds any rational and reasonable discussion on religion and can be categorised as hate speech.
I have no problem if someone tries to discuss issues of religion in a civil discourse; but the tone used by certain members, who seem to be very vocal and sometimes use unparliamentary and hurting language, means that civil discourse is almost impossible in this forum. Any substantive issue raised by anyone if dragged into the same discourse of hinduism vs. evangelism. I doubt if the majority of members of this forum have any interest in such venomous and hurtful debate, bereft of any logic, fact and rationality. This is a dangerous situation and there should be no evenhandedness by moderators in this matter; unless you do want to promote this listserve as a forum for trading insults on religion and faith. While respecting free speech, it is also your responsibility to ensure that hurtful, false and degrading baseless insinuations are not allowed on the listserve. Otherwise in my view you are abdicating your responsibility to this forum. Norms without enforcement become meaningless and you should send a clear message to those who are violating the norms of this listserve. We have joined this forum to have meaningful discussions about development and related issues for Jharkhand and neighboring areas; not to be the target of nonsensical polemics. Dear moderator, this forum has many very illustrious and knowledgeable people as members - the current discussions have served to trivialise the listserve so much that many such people don't participate in discussions. By moderating and ensuing a civil discourse, we will surely have greater participation from many scholars and experts who are a member of this forum. At present anything progressive posted on this listserve is an immediate target of insults and diatribes by what one would call ideologically motivated ill-informed persons- which means that no one wants to get into polemics with these persons and therefore refrain from posting their opinions. I request other members also to present thier opinion on the need for moderation Regards Kundan On 8/15/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Dear friends, > > > > We appreciate some of you have been raised your voice for change and > improvement in this forum. Here, we appeal everyone to join us to make this > forum an ideal forum. > > > > It is very easy for moderators to delete / not pass / moderate message if > someone keep repeating mistakes and violating posting norms. But, it will > not improve their mistakes and standard of expressions as well as it will > discourage them to post in this forum. > > > > If everyone is complaining about one member or few members then they should > certainly take critics positively and follow the Jharkhand Forum's posting > norms <http://jharkhand.org.in/posting_norms.htm> in order to make this > forum an ideal forum. > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > JF's Moderator > > > > http://jharkhand.org.in/posting_norms.htm > http://www.jharkhand.org.in/forum > > http://www.jharkhand.org.in/about-jharkhand-forum > > > > . > > --- On *Fri, 15/8/08, Madhumita Dutta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote: > > > From: Madhumita Dutta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] Re: Detention of David Pugh: Hats off to > Odisha Police. > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, 15 August, 2008, 4:53 PM > > > > > > Jharkhand Forum <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/forum> > Jharkhand Forum <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/forum> | Jharkhand > Blog<http://www.jharkhand.org.in/blog> > | Jharkhand Video <http://www.jharkhandi.org/video> | Jharkhand > Network<http://www.jharkhand.org.in/network> > > * * > > > > Hello Moderator (I am begining to wonder if there is one!) > > I too am voicing my frustration with this listserve, which I had subscribed > to thinking it would keep me updated on issues/developments related to > Jharkhand. But the kind of email exchanges that have been taking place in > this forum is absolutely deplorable.. Such bigoted jingoistic emails are > most disturbing. As soon as I see emails from some people (whom I do not > know personally, but have been reading their emails) in this forum, I hit > the delete button, since from their earlier emails I can guess what the tone > and content of their emails would be. > > Therefore, if there is a moderator for this forum, kindly step in and play > your role. Or else kindly unsubscribe me from this forum. > > Thank you. > Madhumita Dutta, Chennai. > PS: And to paint people like David Pugh with the same brush as pedophiles > of Goa is stretching it too far. And people who are doing so are so consumed > with hatered that they have lost their sense of reasoning. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Dr. Dhuni Soren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > *To:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.in <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, August 15, 2008 8:12 PM > *Subject:* [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] Re: Detention of David Pugh: Hats off to > Odisha Police. > > > Hello Kundan, > I fully agree with your understanding of the situation in this forum. > I have tried on many occasions to point this out but no one seems to > care and I simply ignore some of these mails by seeing the names of > the senders. > But its about time that some moderation of materials put across the > forum is done for the sake of the forum which is otherwise doing very > well. > Dhuni > > -- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.in <Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in>, > "Kundan Kumar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] .> > wrote: > > > > It has become impossible to discuss anything substantive on this > forum > > without being dragged into angry discussion on evangelism and > xenophobia by > > a select group of rightwing hatemongers, who twist each and every > issue and > > event discussed to their own agenda of anti-christianity. If there > was a > > sustantive and useful debate on issue of religion, conversion etc. > it may > > still be useful- but what we have is a spewing of uninformed > opinions, often > > filled with hate and venom. In name of objectivity and freedom of > speech, > > the moderators seem to allow this to go on unchecked. > > > > Such listserves should act as deliberative forums, democratic in > form and > > intent. If some basic rules of civil interaction is not followed, > > substantive discussions will be pushed out by aggression. That is > the reason > > that we have a speaker in the Parliament, to act as a moderator and > to > > ensure that discussions take place in a proper environment. But > this forum > > is so dominated by issues of hate, exlusion and xenophobia that one > wonders > > if it serves its purposes. Can one maintain balance between > rational thought > > and irrationality? - because that is what we are doing by providing > space to > > people who seem to be bent on playing a sensational form of > identity and > > religious politics using this platform. > > > > Of course tourist visas are used for nefarious purposes - who > doesn't know > > this fact. But insinuating that David Pugh, who used Tourist visas > to visit > > places where people are being killed in the name of development, is > > equivalent to "pedophiles" and "spy" and rapists is simply > horrendous and > > shows a distorted moral compass.The gentleman in question kills so > many > > birds with one stone- he smears Pugh and at the same time > the "evangelists" > > by comparing them to worst criminal scum as well as international > spies > > coming to India. There is no discussions of the purposes of these > seperate > > people - this is exactly like saying that all muslims are > terrorists because > > Osama Bin laden is a terrorist and a muslim. > > > > I will request the moderators to comment on the point raised by me > as above- > > and let me point out that it one sees the volume and quality of > mails on > > this listserve, it appears to be a "religious discussion group" for > any > > casual observer. > > > > Regards > > > > Kundan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/15/08, S kumar <kumar_8134@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > 1*. Many tourists from US and EU coming to India on a > tourist visa, > > > misuse their presence for nefarious activities and stay for > months together > > > beyond permitted period.* > > > > > > *2. The Govt. in its tourism promotion mindset does not take > action > > > against them and at best deport them when caught of the wrong > doings.* > > > > > > *3. See the cases of Western paedophiles caught in Goa with > drugs, but as > > > usual our judiciary releases them on the excuse of "insufficient > evidence". > > > * > > > > > > *4.Several intelligence operatives too come on tourist visa-s and > travel > > > to sensitive locations. The exchange programmes too are not free > of such > > > undesirable "guests"* > > > > > > *5. A fifth group is the Eavangelists from U.S. coming on tour. > Such an > > > evangelist was detained in Trivandrum with his host Benson, and > both of them > > > were main criminals in holding a woman for months and raping her. > She > > > was kept under locked doors and taken to different places in > Kerala. ons > > > were arrested.* > > > > > > 4. > > > > > > --- On *Thu, 8/14/08, deba nayak <[EMAIL PROTECTED] ..>* wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: deba nayak <[EMAIL PROTECTED] ..> > > > Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] Detention of David Pugh: Hats > off to > > > Odisha Police. > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.in <Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in> > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.co.in <Jharkhand%40yahoogroups.co.in> > > > Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 10:48 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jharkhand Forum | Jharkhand Blog | Jharkhand Video | Jharkhand > Network<http://www.jharkhan d.org.in/ <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/>> > > > <http://egroups. com/list/ Jharkhand<http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> > > > > > * * > > > > > > > > > Orissa Police did the prefect and right job of arresting David > suspecting > > > security violation. Any foreign national can be arrested in US > provided > > > he/she is a suspect of national security or suspected to be > involved in any > > > kind of suspicious activities. Hats off to Odisha Police. -------- > ---- > > > --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------ > --- > > > --------- --------- --------- ----- David Pugh, a school > teacher, > > > initially posed himself as a reporter when asked about his > profession in the > > > US, police said, adding there was no point in misleading them. --- > --------- > > > --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ----- > The > > > US national, who has been detained near Kalinga Nagar on > suspicion of being > > > an anti-government activist, said he was studying problems of > people in > > > industrial areas. David Pugh, who came to India on a tourist visa > in July, > > > was detained by Orissa police near the steel hub of Kalinga Nagar > along with > > > a woman Maoist cadre on Tuesday night. Pugh, who left here for > Delhi this > > > morning, told interrogators that he was not interested in sight > seeing but > > > was studying problems of people in industrial areas. Police said > Pugh > > > visited Singur, Navi Mumbai, Paradip before entering the Kalinga > Nagar. Suspecting > > > his intentions, the state police have urged the Ministry of > External Affairs > > > to cancel Pugh's visa and ensure that the San Francisco native > never comes > > > to India again, Jajpur district Superintendent of Police D S > Kuttey said. Pugh, > > > however, argued that he had not made any mistake by visiting the > industrial > > > areas of the country. But, police said, had Pugh been interested > in study > > > and research, he would have secured a student visa instead of a > tourist visa > > > before visiting India. "He first went to Navi Mumbai and then > Singur > > > before coming to Orissa.... His intention was not exactly that of > a > > > tourist," Kuttey said. Pratima Das, the woman Maoist accompanying > him, was > > > later arrested. Pugh claimed he was not aware that she was a > hardcore Maoist > > > cadre, he had attended a peoples' tribunal here on August 10 > before going to > > > Posco area in Paradip and Kalinga Nagar, the sources said. They > also > > > suspected him to be a member of International Communist Movement > (ICM) which > > > has roots in most parts of the world. "We doubt his intention of > coming to > > > the country," Director General of Police (DGP) Gopal Chandra > Nanda said > > > adding he was therefore detained for questioning. Pugh, however, > was > > > allowed to leave the state after his antecedents were verified by > the > > > police. > > > > > > > > > *Pravin Patel <tribalwelfare@ gmail.com>* wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jharkhand Forum | Jharkhand Blog | Jharkhand Video | Jharkhand > Network<http://www.jharkhan d.org.in/ <http://www..jharkhand.org.in/>> > > > <http://egroups. com/list/ Jharkhand<http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> > > > > > * * > > > > > > > > > Dear all > > > > > > The news of arrest of David Pugh and persons accompanying him as > Maoists > > > by the Orissa Police from the Jagatsinghpur area is strongly > deplored by me > > > and other activists. > > > > > > Mr. David Pugh is a teacher and is keen to know the status of > tribals who > > > are displaced for industrial ventures. I have organised a meeting > of David > > > Pugh at Raigarh where few social activists were also invited. The > meeting > > > lasted for the whole day. No where during the meeting or at any > point of > > > discussion, there was any thing that we can club with or > associate with > > > Maoist. He is a simple man. He had program to go to Ranchi but > due to > > > extreme rush in the train to Rourkela, he had to cancel the > program and stay > > > at night at Raigarh. He had plans to visit Jharkhand and then to > Orissa to > > > meet the people at Kalinga Nagar, Posco victims, and also at > Surya Sponge > > > iron under Barchana P.S. where police fired live bullets on > agitating > > > tribals. > > > > > > I strongly deplore the act of Orissa police and urge our members > to stand > > > with Mr. David Pugh. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > Pravin Patel. > > > > > > *Fire on the Mountain Blog:* > > > > > > I just received word that an old friend and fine activist, Bay > Area teacher > > > Dave Pugh, has been detained by the Indian police while > investigating > > > struggles of Indian peasants and tribal people in Orissa who are > protesting > > > displacement resulting from rapacious mining and industrial > development. His > > > guide and translator were also detained. > > > > > > We don't do this much at *FotM*, but I urgently request that > folks *read > > > the press release after the fold*, which has information on how > to contact > > > the Indian government to demand the release of the trio. There is > an*Orissa government email address, and fax and phone numbers for > Orissa and > > > for the central government*. Please help let these these > officials know > > > that Dave's friends and the broader progressive community in the > US are > > > watching. > > > > > > Also, when you do take action, please let us know so we can track > and > > > coordinate the protest and let folks in India who are defending > those > > > detained know what's up here. Also please cc any email protests or > > > announcements to GN Saibaba, who is working actively on their > defense. His > > > email is janadolan(at) gmail(dot) com. > > > > > > > > > *UPDATE*: Some of the phone and fax numbers in the original press > release > > > did not work. We have retained those we believe are correct. Keep > an eye on > > > this space for further updates. > > > > > > *THE PRESS RELEASE > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * <http://www.jharkhan d.org.in/ > > > network<http://www.jharkhand.org.in/network> > > > > > <http://egroups. com/list/ Jharkhand<http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > >
