what nilini quoted on issue of devid pugh, can be one approach but how much can escapist . i really cant support the idea of hates off orrisa police.we must see the nature of police in this country even with india people.
pankaj kumar -- In [email protected], Nalini<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Dear All > We do agree with Mr. Kundan. We must avoid all these things and all discussion should be positive approach. > Nalini > MANAVI, DUMKA > > Quoting [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > > > Hello Kundan, > I fully agree with your understanding of the situation in this forum. > I have tried on many occasions to point this out but no one seems to > care and I simply ignore some of these mails by seeing the names of > the senders. > But its about time that some moderation of materials put across the > forum is done for the sake of the forum which is otherwise doing very > well. > Dhuni > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- In [email protected], "Kundan Kumar" <kumarkun@> > wrote: > > > > It has become impossible to discuss anything substantive on this > forum > > without being dragged into angry discussion on evangelism and > xenophobia by > > a select group of rightwing hatemongers, who twist each and every > issue and > > event discussed to their own agenda of anti-christianity. If there > was a > > sustantive and useful debate on issue of religion, conversion etc. > it may > > still be useful- but what we have is a spewing of uninformed > opinions, often > > filled with hate and venom. In name of objectivity and freedom of > speech, > > the moderators seem to allow this to go on unchecked. > > > > Such listserves should act as deliberative forums, democratic in > form and > > intent. If some basic rules of civil interaction is not followed, > > substantive discussions will be pushed out by aggression. That is > the reason > > that we have a speaker in the Parliament, to act as a moderator and > to > > ensure that discussions take place in a proper environment. But > this forum > > is so dominated by issues of hate, exlusion and xenophobia that one > wonders > > if it serves its purposes. Can one maintain balance between > rational thought > > and irrationality? - because that is what we are doing by providing > space to > > people who seem to be bent on playing a sensational form of > identity and > > religious politics using this platform. > > > > Of course tourist visas are used for nefarious purposes - who > doesn't know > > this fact. But insinuating that David Pugh, who used Tourist visas > to visit > > places where people are being killed in the name of development, is > > equivalent to "pedophiles" and "spy" and rapists is simply > horrendous and > > shows a distorted moral compass.The gentleman in question kills so > many > > birds with one stone- he smears Pugh and at the same time > the "evangelists" > > by comparing them to worst criminal scum as well as international > spies > > coming to India. There is no discussions of the purposes of these > seperate > > people - this is exactly like saying that all muslims are > terrorists because > > Osama Bin laden is a terrorist and a muslim. > > > > I will request the moderators to comment on the point raised by me > as above- > > and let me point out that it one sees the volume and quality of > mails on > > this listserve, it appears to be a "religious discussion group" for > any > > casual observer. > > > > Regards > > > > Kundan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 8/15/08, S kumar <kumar_8134@> wrote: > > > > > > 1*. Many tourists from US and EU coming to India on a > tourist visa, > > > misuse their presence for nefarious activities and stay for > months together > > > beyond permitted period.* > > > > > > *2. The Govt. in its tourism promotion mindset does not take > action > > > against them and at best deport them when caught of the wrong > doings.* > > > > > > *3. See the cases of Western paedophiles caught in Goa with > drugs, but as > > > usual our judiciary releases them on the excuse of "insufficient > evidence". > > > * > > > > > > *4.Several intelligence operatives too come on tourist visa-s and > travel > > > to sensitive locations. The exchange programmes too are not free > of such > > > undesirable "guests"* > > > > > > *5. A fifth group is the Eavangelists from U.S. coming on tour. > Such an > > > evangelist was detained in Trivandrum with his host Benson, and > both of them > > > were main criminals in holding a woman for months and raping her. > She > > > was kept under locked doors and taken to different places in > Kerala. ons > > > were arrested.* > > > > > > 4. > > > > > > --- On *Thu, 8/14/08, deba nayak <debanayak@>* wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: deba nayak <debanayak@> > > > Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] Detention of David Pugh: Hats > off to > > > Odisha Police. > > > To: [email protected] > > > Cc: [email protected] > > > Date: Thursday, August 14, 2008, 10:48 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jharkhand Forum | Jharkhand Blog | Jharkhand Video | Jharkhand > Network<http://www.jharkhand.org.in/> > > > <http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> > > > * * > > > > > > > > > Orissa Police did the prefect and right job of arresting David > suspecting > > > security violation. Any foreign national can be arrested in US > provided > > > he/she is a suspect of national security or suspected to be > involved in any > > > kind of suspicious activities. Hats off to Odisha Police. ------ -- > ---- > > > --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---- -- > --- > > > --------- --------- --------- ----- David Pugh, a school > teacher, > > > initially posed himself as a reporter when asked about his > profession in the > > > US, police said, adding there was no point in misleading them. - -- > --------- > > > --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---- - > The > > > US national, who has been detained near Kalinga Nagar on > suspicion of being > > > an anti-government activist, said he was studying problems of > people in > > > industrial areas. David Pugh, who came to India on a tourist visa > in July, > > > was detained by Orissa police near the steel hub of Kalinga Nagar > along with > > > a woman Maoist cadre on Tuesday night. Pugh, who left here for > Delhi this > > > morning, told interrogators that he was not interested in sight > seeing but > > > was studying problems of people in industrial areas. Police said > Pugh > > > visited Singur, Navi Mumbai, Paradip before entering the Kalinga > Nagar. Suspecting > > > his intentions, the state police have urged the Ministry of > External Affairs > > > to cancel Pugh's visa and ensure that the San Francisco native > never comes > > > to India again, Jajpur district Superintendent of Police D S > Kuttey said. Pugh, > > > however, argued that he had not made any mistake by visiting the > industrial > > > areas of the country. But, police said, had Pugh been interested > in study > > > and research, he would have secured a student visa instead of a > tourist visa > > > before visiting India. "He first went to Navi Mumbai and then > Singur > > > before coming to Orissa.... His intention was not exactly that of > a > > > tourist," Kuttey said. Pratima Das, the woman Maoist accompanying > him, was > > > later arrested. Pugh claimed he was not aware that she was a > hardcore Maoist > > > cadre, he had attended a peoples' tribunal here on August 10 > before going to > > > Posco area in Paradip and Kalinga Nagar, the sources said. They > also > > > suspected him to be a member of International Communist Movement > (ICM) which > > > has roots in most parts of the world. "We doubt his intention of > coming to > > > the country," Director General of Police (DGP) Gopal Chandra > Nanda said > > > adding he was therefore detained for questioning. Pugh, however, > was > > > allowed to leave the state after his antecedents were verified by > the > > > police. > > > > > > > > > *Pravin Patel <tribalwelfare@ gmail.com>* wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jharkhand Forum | Jharkhand Blog | Jharkhand Video | Jharkhand > Network<http://www.jharkhand.org.in/> > > > <http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> > > > * * > > > > > > > > > Dear all > > > > > > The news of arrest of David Pugh and persons accompanying him as > Maoists > > > by the Orissa Police from the Jagatsinghpur area is strongly > deplored by me > > > and other activists. > > > > > > Mr. David Pugh is a teacher and is keen to know the status of > tribals who > > > are displaced for industrial ventures. I have organised a meeting > of David > > > Pugh at Raigarh where few social activists were also invited. The > meeting > > > lasted for the whole day. No where during the meeting or at any > point of > > > discussion, there was any thing that we can club with or > associate with > > > Maoist. He is a simple man. He had program to go to Ranchi but > due to > > > extreme rush in the train to Rourkela, he had to cancel the > program and stay > > > at night at Raigarh. He had plans to visit Jharkhand and then to > Orissa to > > > meet the people at Kalinga Nagar, Posco victims, and also at > Surya Sponge > > > iron under Barchana P.S. where police fired live bullets on > agitating > > > tribals. > > > > > > I strongly deplore the act of Orissa police and urge our members > to stand > > > with Mr. David Pugh. > > > > > > with best wishes > > > > > > Pravin Patel. > > > > > > *Fire on the Mountain Blog:* > > > > > > I just received word that an old friend and fine activist, Bay > Area teacher > > > Dave Pugh, has been detained by the Indian police while > investigating > > > struggles of Indian peasants and tribal people in Orissa who are > protesting > > > displacement resulting from rapacious mining and industrial > development. His > > > guide and translator were also detained. > > > > > > We don't do this much at *FotM*, but I urgently request that > folks *read > > > the press release after the fold*, which has information on how > to contact > > > the Indian government to demand the release of the trio. There is > an*Orissa government email address, and fax and phone numbers for > Orissa and > > > for the central government*. Please help let these these > officials know > > > that Dave's friends and the broader progressive community in the > US are > > > watching. > > > > > > Also, when you do take action, please let us know so we can track > and > > > coordinate the protest and let folks in India who are defending > those > > > detained know what's up here. Also please cc any email protests or > > > announcements to GN Saibaba, who is working actively on their > defense. His > > > email is janadolan(at) gmail(dot) com. > > > > > > > > > *UPDATE*: Some of the phone and fax numbers in the original press > release > > > did not work. We have retained those we believe are correct. Keep > an eye on > > > this space for further updates. > > > > > > *THE PRESS RELEASE > > > > > > * > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * * <http://www.jharkhand.org.in/network> > > > <http://egroups.com/list/Jharkhand> > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
