Vince wrote: > A reality is that I will always admit when I am wrong, and indeed, > Laurent, you are right, and I was wrong, I did once use the word > "Eichman" but not at all, not in any way, in the way that you implied.
Your April 16th post: "Asking the Palestinians to trust Sharon is somewhat akin to 1940s European Jews being asked to trust, say Heydrich or Eichmann. Yes, I am saying that Sharon is a war criminal, for the 1982 massacres" ............"What a hypocrite." Seems pretty clear to me what you're saying, not an ounce of ambiguity. > In fact, the rest of what I wrote was extensively to say that there was > no functional moral equivilance between Sharon and genocide. That is > why it was so far from my mind. There is much desparately wrong with > Sharon's policies, but I said, repeartedly, that they are not genocidal. > You only said that after I picked up on your April 16th post in May. After reading your initial post again, I see nothing along those lines in it. > That said, for the rest, you have not responded to any factual > statements that I made, nor did I expect you to. You must be joking. My May 3rd post was precisely all about rebutting your "factual statements". You're simply repeating what I said. You have attacked me > and my character, you have attacked others, you have atacked so many > people and things fine, go with it, it makes you happy. You are the > expert at dropping words that hate. I read your words and you scare > me. Attitudes like you express only prolong hostilities. I do not have > not have to justify myself to you. Nor does Anne nor anyone else. > Yes after believing you were forgiving and seing how you turned around and attacked me I did question your character. Please do not try to rally others in this, I've only attacked you. (my comment to Anne was a response to an insult). I love it when someone under attack just reverses the argument and points the finger at the attacker. > And, frankly, I have had enough, more than enough, I am done with you. > As long as anyone who disagrees with you is, in your mind and words, > "ignorant" or believes in "simplistic lies" there is no no point in any > type of conversation. I live always in search of new learnings, new > insights, change in what I know and believe as I come to undertsand that > which lies outside my own knowledge. You are someone who says that > those who disagree with you are "ignorant" and believe in "simplistic > lies." Since you have all truth already, there is nothing more to say, > is there? God spare the world from people who have all truth like > you. > Twisting words won't clear you up. I never said one cannot disagree with me. I always welcome an interesting exchange of opinions. I never ASSOCIATED the disagreement of opinion with being ignorant and believing in simplistic lies. Yes I've said all 3 words, but in different contexts. > The JMDL can handle a lot of things but the JMDL is also my home, has > been for a long time, and this exchange with you is wearisome beyond > words. For the sake of this community, I am over and out with you. > > For my JMDL family, through the years we have had extensive pitched > battles in here: Columbine (and guns and all that), Kosovo, the 2000 > election, etc etc. Maybe it is a post September 11 th thing, but I do > not experience that the JMDL is a place that right now at this moment > wants anything else than loving conversation about Joni and about life. > That is what I want, too. I have been doing my job in my own way to > toss out other topics. > > No more drama... Again, I only picked up on your hateful post of April 16th. Because when I see hate and antisemitism I will always denounce it. I would have much more respect for you (or anybody else) if you had the courage to say that you hate Jews. I can live with that, no problem. It's the hypocrisy that I find revolting. Because you try to conceal your hate with nice preaching about love, etc. This reminds me of a story my father told me: in 1945 he spent 6 months in M|nich before moving to France. Germans who passed him in the street could see, even 6 months later, that he came out of a concentration camp. ALL OF THEM would take off their hat when they passed him, and behaved like larvae. Now the house he lived in belonged to a former SS who had moved to the guest house and offered to be the butler as long as he could stay there. This SS man never apologized, never tried to hide his past. My father always told me he had respect for this man. I assure you this has NOTHING to do with disagreeing with my opinions. I am not saying or inferring that people who disagree with me are antisemitic or ignorant or hateful or whatever. This is pure nonsense and if it were true I should be locked up. The truth is there are some antisemites spreading lies in the world. One cannot deny that. Now they've gotten more and more skilled at hiding those true feelings behind various screens, the latest being the poor victimized Palestinians and Sharon the war criminal. (Of course they're victims, but NOT of the Israelis. That's what I've been trying to prove all along. For example did you know that only recently has the Israeli financial contribution to the UN agency for relief of Palestinian refugees been matched by Saudi Arabia?). Anyway, some people who spread those lies do it because they themselves are antisemitic. Other are merely influenced by the repetition and do it out of ignorance. My only goal here is to prevent those lies from being construed as anything else but what they are so they don't infect others. Obviously this is a difficult task, and quite frankly I'd rather be listening to Joni right now than do this. I apologize if I'm sometimes blunt, which makes some people think I'm some kind of a bully. Hey I'm not a professional diplomat. Sometimes I may over-react, sometimes I don't anticipate the various meanings of words. Those who've been following the exchange know I'm sincere and I'm not the monster that you depict. Laurent
