any lyrics are poetry with music. it is an added dimension which may add to, or take away from it.
add to poetry in that the writer may succesfully use the added dimensions of music and voice which give so much extra. or take away in that the writer may use the music/vocals as a crutch in order to successfully bring out that which the poet may have to do with only the words and structure of the poem. or to just divert attention away from their lack of ability with the lyrics. (who cares that theyre only saying shhooo bop, shooo bop as long as it sounds good??) it takes an exceptionally gifted writer to produce something which may stand scrutiny as either. something joni does extremely well. her lyrics on their own make a wonderful read. with the music added they just get better 'cause her music and singing just add so much extra depth. sure a whole lot of lyrics are *bad*. so is a whole lot of poetry. "oops i did it again" is just as much bad poetry set to music as "there was a young man from nantucket" is just bad poetry. the fact that we dont like it doesnt make it any less "lyrics" or poetry. i did have a good chuckle at franklyn lecturing victor on the art/craft of songwriting. im not sure of franklyn's songwriting record, but given what i know about victor's way with words i have a suspicion that this is somewhat a case of the "grasshopper" lecturing the master. i dont know victor personally, but anyone capable of songwriting of the standard which he produces just gotta know something about it. what mtv and music videos have done is added in a third dimension - the visual. some true artists have managed to use that extra dimension and produce a package which holds up in all 3 aspects. (eg david byrne on sessions at west 54th, pink floyd's the wall) and others have just used the visual medium as a crutch to cover over their lack of talent in other areas (christina aguilera, britney's pears et al) joni's PWWAM video did a lot of the visual medium tie in. the paintings on the walls, the setting of the auditorium etc, & of course, joni's wonderful sensual way of playing.... ron np - tanita tikaram-love dont need no tyranny (one of the things i love about the list are the continual reminders re music which i havent listened to for a while which sends me off to dig the cds out of the pile...)
