I have a question, why is there both an application/jose and and
application/jose+json.  Why not have just one of them?

 

Jim

 

 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike
Jones
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:47 AM
To: Matt Miller (mamille2); Richard Barnes
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS and JWE MIME
types?

 

Editorially, if we do decide to add application/jose and
application/jose+json MIME types, I would register them in
draft-ietf-jose-json-web-signature, just like other registry content shared
between JWS and JWE, such as the JSON Web Signature and Encryption Header
Parameters Registry
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-signature-11#page-18> .

 

                                                            -- Mike

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Miller (mamille2) [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2013 10:33 AM
To: Richard Barnes
Cc: Mike Jones; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS and JWE MIME
types?

 

I just want to say that I think having a media type is important and useful.
It might not be important and useful for JWT or OAuth or OpenID-Connect, but
I can think of many applications that would make use of them if at all
possible.

 

I personally don't care if it's a generic media type or individual
application/jwe and application/jws.  However, I think a generic media type
would require a separate document; trying to fit this into the one shared
document (JWA) seems wrong.

 

 

- m&m

 

Matt Miller <  <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected] >

Cisco Systems, Inc.

 

PS: I've found +json useful for other things, because I do have applications
that present in different formats (right now that's usually +xml).  While
there's not a simple corollary with XML-based concepts, I think there will
be corollaries in the future (e.g., CBOR).  Having them now means we're not
painted into a corner if (when) we look at JOSE2 and support for binary
representations.

 

On Jun 20, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Richard Barnes < <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]>

wrote:

 

> That algorithm is part of the story, but it's incomplete.  What we need is

> an algorithm that starts with an arbitrary octet string and sorts by

> JWS/JWE and serialization.  An outline of the flow chart:

> 

> 1. If content parses as valid JSON

> 1.*. Parse JSON

> 1.1. Iontains a "ciphertext" field -> JWE + JSON

> 1.2. Contains a "payload" field -> JWS + JSON

> 1.3. Else fail

> 2. Else if content matches the regex "^[a-zA-Z0-9_.-]*$"

> 2.*. Split on "."

> 2.1. If 5 components -> JWE + compact

> 2.2. If 3 components -> JWS + compact

> 2.3. Else fail

> 3. Else fail

> 

> There's also the question of which document this goes in.  It would be a

> natural thing for a combined JWS+JWE document, but we don't have one of

> those :(

> 

> 

> 

> 

> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 11:19 AM, Mike Jones <
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>wrote:

> 

>> There is a defined algorithm to distinguish between the JWS and JWE

>> objects in the third paragraph of

>>
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-encryption-11#section-4
>
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-jose-json-web-encryption-11#section-4

>> .****

>> 

>> ** **

>> 

>>                                                            -- Mike****

>> 

>> ** **

>> 

>> *From:* Richard Barnes [ <mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]]

>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 20, 2013 8:15 AM

>> *To:* Mike Jones

>> *Cc:*  <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]

>> 

>> *Subject:* Re: [jose] Should we keep or remove the JOSE JWS and JWE MIME

>> types?****

>> 

>> ** **

>> 

>> Multiplexing JWE and JWS under a single JOSE media type only makes sense

>> if there's a defined algorithm to demux them.  So if you want to do this,

>> you would need to write down the algorithm.****

>> 

>> ** **

>> 

>> Personally, it seems simpler and clearer to me to just have the four

>> current types, so that you know which type of object you're dealing with,

>> and in what serialization, without having to do content sniffing.****

>> 

>> ** **

>> 

>> On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Mike Jones <
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>

>> wrote:****

>> 

>> The JWS and JWE documents currently define these MIME types for the

>> convenience of applications that may want to use them:****

>> 

>>                application/jws****

>> 

>>                application/jws+json****

>> 

>>                application/jwe****

>> 

>>                application/jwe+json****

>> 

>> ****

>> 

>> That being said, I'm not aware of any uses of these by applications at

>> present.  Thus, I think that makes it fair game to ask whether we want to

>> keep them or remove them - in which case, if applications ever needed
them,

>> they could define them later.****

>> 

>> ****

>> 

>> Another dimension of this question for JWS and JWE is that it's not clear

>> that the four types application/jws, application/jws+json,
application/jwe,

>> and application/jwe+json are even the right ones.  It might be more
useful

>> to have generic application/jose and application/jose+json types, which

>> could hold either JWS or JWE objects respectively using the compact or
JSON

>> serializations (although I'm not advocating adding them at this
time).****

>> 

>> ****

>> 

>> Having different JWS versus JWE MIME types apparently did contribute to
at

>> least Dick's confusion about the purpose of the "typ" field, so deleting

>> them could help eliminate this possibility of confusion in the future.

>> Thus, I'm increasingly convinced we should get rid of the JWS and JWE
types

>> and leave it up to applications to define the types they need, when they

>> need them.****

>> 

>> ****

>> 

>> Do people have use cases for these four MIME types now or should we leave

>> them to future specs to define, if needed?****

>> 

>> ****

>> 

>>                                                                -- Mike***

>> *

>> 

>> ****

>> 

>> P.S.  For completeness, I'll add that the JWK document also defines these

>> MIME types:****

>> 

>>                application/jwk+json****

>> 

>>                application/jwk-set+json****

>> 

>> ****

>> 

>> There are already clear use cases for these types, so I'm not advocating

>> deleting them, but wanted to call that out explicitly.  For instance,
when

>> retrieving a JWK Set document referenced by a "jku" header parameter, I

>> believe that the result should use the application/jwk-set+json type.
(In

>> fact, I'll add this to the specs, unless there are any objections.)

>> Likewise, draft-miller-jose-jwe-protected-jwk-02 already uses

>> application/jwk+json.  Both could also be as "cty" values when encrypting

>> JWKs and JWK Sets, in contexts where that that would be useful.****

>> 

>> ****

>> 

>> 

>> _______________________________________________

>> jose mailing list

>>  <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]

>>  <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose****>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose****

>> 

>> ** **

>> 

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