> But from these discussions it seems that JWP is really its own separate thing.

They are separate in the same way that JWS and JWE are separate.  JWP has a 
different syntax than JWS or JWE but reuses many of the design decisions and 
components, when applicable – just like JWE reused many of the design decisions 
and components from JWS.

Also, per my presentation at the 
BoF<https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/114/materials/slides-114-jwp-the-need-standards-for-selective-disclosure-and-zero-knowledge-proofs-00>,
 the JOSE working group members have experience creating simple and 
widely-adopted JSON-based representations for cryptographic objects.  The 
simplest way to ensure that that expertise is brought to bear is to, in fact, 
do the work in the JOSE working group.

                                         -- Mike

From: jose <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Neil Madden
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2022 1:13 PM
To: Jeremie Miller <[email protected]>
Cc: Tobias Looker <[email protected]>; Torsten Lodderstedt 
<[email protected]>; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [jose] JWP


On 28 Jul 2022, at 16:47, Jeremie Miller 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

> No, to prevent this the issuer simply puts these sorts of claims in the 
> header, which is not subject to selective disclosure, e.g the prover cannot 
> create a valid proof/presentation without disclosing the original un-modified 
> header.

That is a very non-standard use of the header. AFAICT such usage is not 
compatible with RFC 7800, and I would guess that it may well lead to security 
issues as implementations won’t be looking for these claims in the header but 
rather in the claims set.

That's one of the reasons we're proposing JWP as another specification, it is 
not compatible with existing JWTs+PoP.

Also, a current security assumption baked into the JWP draft is that all 
presentations are not replayable. While this can be accomplished with a 
proof-of-possession it is not the only mechanism an algorithm could use, BBS 
for example supports this without requiring a traditional PoP.


So I guess then why do this in the JOSE working group if the work has little in 
common with existing JOSE specs and semantics? Different algorithms, different 
formats, different processing rules. It’s not clear if JWP could even reuse the 
IANA JWT Claims registry if you’re saying that it’s not compatible with some of 
them (eg cnf).

The proposed new charter says:

“The current JOSE and JWT specifications are not sufficiently general to enable 
use of these newer techniques. The reconstituted JSON Object Signing and 
Encryption (JOSE) working group will build on what came before but also rectify 
these shortcomings.”

But from these discussions it seems that JWP is really its own separate thing. 
(Indeed the JOSE specs are already criticised for trying to be too general).

— Neil
_______________________________________________
jose mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/jose

Reply via email to