congrats to Saji and Ravi,you have done a very good work.
i just add my comments on the same.
love
seb / Kuwait
Hi Nick, both those references are talking about traditions only. ( 2 Thes
2:15, 3:6 )
Why traditions are important in our faith?
Certainly Bible is the source of our faith. But there are many things not
found in the Bible is also part of our faith. And there are also many other
things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that
even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written (
John 21-25 ).
All the experiences of the disciples of Jesus need not be written in the
Bible. All their inspirations also need not be in the written form. Bible is
the written form of the Word of God. But Word of God was also found in the
oral form. The church was established before the formation of the Bible in
the 4th Century. Until that time the Word of God was passed through
generations in oral form. That is what we call tradition. Tradition means
the experiences and inspirations of our ancestors, Apostles, church fathers
etc passed through generations in different ways including oral form. All
the apostles are not found in writing the Bible. But they were also carrying
the Word of God. They exchanged it in oral form.
Bible was available to everybody only very recently after the invention of
printing press. Until that time our ancestors were depending on tradition
only.
Even after the formation of the Bible, God could speak to the Church through
His people by private revelations. The Church will discern them and would
encourage the believers if they support our faith.
Even those who believe in sola scriptura ( Bible alone) believe many things
not found in the Bible but from tradition. Take the case of the Holy
Trinity, or the Holy Spirit as God, is there any word explicitly stating
that in the Bible?
>From: Ravi Vaz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>CC: Saji Sebastian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [JOYnet] My comments on Saji's Reply
>Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 00:01:40 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Hi Joynetters,
>
>Just wrote this mail to show my appreciation for
>Saji's comments..
>
>The traditions we speak of are not Cultural traditions
>, but actually teachings of the church and the beliefs
>of christians across 2000 years.
>the word tradition means "handed down".
>From the teachings of the early church and the belief
>of the early christians was born the New Testament.So
>we can say that the New Testament is a selection of
>specific information done keeping a lot of criteria
>reagrding the authenticity and veracity of the texts .
>This process took almost 350 to 400 years.
>The Traditions include Oral teachings of the Apostles
>and evangelists and fathers of the church,and also the
>same and much more in written form.From all this the
>27 books of the NT were chosen and approved.
>
>Let us please keep this bit of history in mind..
>Mail the joynet for further info.
>
>Love and Prayers
>
>Ravi
>
>Mumbai
>
>--- Saji Sebastian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > :) Dear brothers and sisters,
> > We don't need to defend the authority of Word of
> > God.
> > Because everyone and everything, exist in it (Him).
> >
> > However I don't think that all of God's Words can be
> > put in to a book. There is no doubt that Book is
> > Word
> > of God. Our God is a living God, who speaks to His
> > people through all generations. (I am not telling
> > that
> > He is not going to contradict His written word some
> > point of time). The Bible took its shape in her
> > (church's) lap. And the church the one who is tells
> > us
> > Bible is the word of God. If any of us take the book
> > and renounce the church that is foolishness. Bible
> > is
> > one of the greatest gifts that the church offers the
> > world (Word of God in a written format). Jesus did
> > so
> > many things and said to his disciples, lot of things
> > that any books cant contain. What was written were
> > written so that people may believe that Jesus is Son
> > of God. So those were not the only things he said.
> >
> > The Church is the sacrament that makes Jesus (God)
> > available to all the peoples; she exists with all
> > Authority given by her master. Jesus tells her she
> > would do greater things than He did while he was in
> > the Middle East 2000 years back.
> >
> > The richness of the wisdom of 2000 years of
> > Christian
> > life (a life listening to the Holy Spirit and acting
> > accordingly) is unimaginable. Those who are fighting
> > against the church and its traditions (which the way
> > of life and a culture), is knowingly or unknowingly
> > joining with enemy to deprive us of those glorious
> > richness.
> >
> > Those who cant love his church (that makes Him
> > visible) cant love him.
> >
> > With lots of love and prayers
> > Saji Sebastian, NJ, USA
> >
> >
> > --- Nicolas Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > Its so encouraging to see how all have brought
> > forth
> > > facts to prove that Jehovah Witnesses are a cult
> > and
> > > for sure they r not Christians.
> > >
> > > However so far I had not seen someone challenging
> > > the
> > > authority of Bible to do so. The first point of
> > > Joseph
> > > seems to question the Bible and speaks that Bible
> > > asks us to follow traditions. Excuse me but both
> > the
> > > references given don't speak about traditions.
> > > Traditions are not God made, but human made. We
> > > Indians might have a different traditional way of
> > > worshipping God, some others may have other
> > > traditions. The way to worship God is in John
> > 4:24.
> > > WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.
> > >
> > > We all are supposed to worship GOD the FATHER
> > > through
> > > God the Son JESUS by means of God the HOLY SPIRIT.
> > > That's TRINITY.
> > >
> > > Please note that I'm not defending the JW's. I'm
> > > defending the authority of the Holy Bible coz
> > Bible
> > > is the Word of God. I firmly agree that JW's are
> > > not
> > > Christians.
> > >
> > > Nick
> > > Aamchi Mumbai.
> > >
> > >
> > > Joseph C.C wrote:
> > > Hai Joynetters,
> > >
> > > Greetings in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
> > > There was a discussion about Jehovah's Witnesses,
> > > and
> > > I read the replies also. It is great to know that
> > > many
> > > know the truth. I thought that I should put in
> > some
> > > of the teachings of the Catholic Church regarding
> > > some
> > > of the points raised in the male.
> > >
> > > 1) Bible is more reliable than tradition Matt.
> > 15:3;
> > > Col. 2:8 : As most of us know that our
> > separated
> > > brethren believe in Sola Scripture, in other words
> > > only the Bible. But they forge the face that Sola
> > > Scripture is Anti Scripture. In the Bible we see
> > > that
> > > we must follow traditions 2 Thes 2:15 and 2 Thes
> > > 3:6.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2) Christ is God's Son and is inferior to Him
> > Matt.
> > > 3:17 : But in the Bible we see in many places
> > where
> > > Jesus identifies Himself with the Father and calls
> > > the
> > > great I am Jn 8:58. So He is not inferior to the
> > > father.
> > >
> > > 3) Christ was first of God's creations Col. 1:15;
> > > Rev.
> > > 3:14: If we look into the Catechism of the
> > Catholic
> > > Church article 465 tells that Christ is Begotten
> > and
> > > not made.
> > >
> > > 4) Images should not be used in worship Ex. 20:4,
> > 5;
> > > Lev.: When the Scripture says images it does not
> > > only
> > > mean making things, because we see in Numbers 21:4
> >
> > > God asking his people to make the Bronze snake.
> > > Again
> > > in the case of the building of the temple we see
> > God
> > > asking his people to make images. What God tells
> > us
> > > id not to worship the images in which case they
> > > become
> > > idols.
> > >
> > > These are very simple explanations taken from the
> > > Church, we can go deep into Theology and keep on
> > > discussing the same. Lets remember one thing that
> > > Jesus died for our sins. The Father, Son and the
> > > Holy
> > > Spirit are one.
> > >
> > > At this juncture I suggest that we can start a
> > > discussion about the Holy Trinity. I believe this
> > > is
> > > important because the Trinity is said to be the
> > > central Mystery of our Faith.
> > >
> > > Love and Prayers,
> > > C.C.
> > > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant
> > > messaging with Yahoo! Messenger
> > > http://im.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> >
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