2. TURNING POINT --> CONTRACEPTION "Patrick Dooley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To : <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject : Culture of Death Date : Thu, 6 Apr 2000 12:02:37 -0400 Dear members, I want to thankyou guys and gals for not ostracizing me outright. I know that some of the claims I made sound incredibly outrageous and quite frankly crazy. Secondly I would like to point out, that the issue of abortion is tightly related to contraception. Not suprisingly, abortion became really big in North America five or six years after the Catholic Bishops allowed disobedience to Pope Paul VI's Humanae Vitae (have I spelt it correctly). Contraception unfortunately became, and has bocome a common dimension of many Catholic marriages in Canada and the United States. Naturally, couples engaged in the conjugal act with no intention of concieving a child will naturally tend to rely on abortion when a child is concieved. Here in North America we have been fighting abortion for thirty years with little or no success. The reason is quite frankly we have not wanted to give up or contraceptive mentallity. In a certain sense it is more evil to contracieve than it is to abort. When one uses contraception, a child has no chance to life, and thus no chance to eternal life. At least when a child is concieved and aborted, it can still enjoy the beatific vision in heaven. I will try to get some time to start backing up some of my earlier statements soon. Fight contraception, and abortion will die. Sincerely Patrick Dooley
Giju George" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To : "jylist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject : Re: Culture of Death Date : Fri, 7 Apr 2000 12:02:50 +0530 Hi Friends So much has been discussed on the cultureof death. But I am stuck on the following point from Patrick's mail "In a certain sense it is more evil to contracieve than it is to abort. When one uses contraception, a child has no chance to life, and thus no chance to eternal life. At least when a child is concieved and aborted, it can still enjoy the beatific vision in heaven." Here arises a question. Is it not still worse not being able to take proper care of the numerous offspring (as Suresh pointed out the number could be 10-20) than to keep a check on the number of them ? To take care means not only the finacial capability of the couple to bring up their children but the time and individual care they have to give to their children. One can site examples of those couples who have many children. But does that mean it could be a success story with every couple? Please throw some light on this. Giju "Patrick Dooley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To : "Jesus Youth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject : Triumph of the Culture of Life Date : Fri, 7 Apr 2000 13:59:03 -0400 Dear friends, I am sorry if I have created any confusion. In my last statement I said "In a certain sense it is more evil to contracieve than it is to abort. When one uses contraception, a child has no chance to life, and thus no chance to eternal life. At least when a child is concieved and aborted, it can still enjoy the beatific vision in heaven." After reading some of the responses, I realized that this sentence could be misinterpreted. I did not mean to say that it is better to avoid contraception and simply abort if a baby is concieved. Abortion is evil. Contraception is evil. I simply meant to criticize the contraceptive mentality which is so widely held in Christian and even Catholic circles. I would like to thank Father Thomas in helping to bring this to my attention. Sincerely Patrick Dooley BIJO_THOMAS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To : "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject : RE: Choose life, that you and your children may live the truth ab out birth control Date : Sat, 8 Apr 2000 05:26:18 +0530 Hello, I would like to break my silence after quiet a long time. I really wanted to comment on this topic much before, but couldn't find time. Many pro-life advocates (I really don't mean any sarcasm here) show a variety of scientific proofs in order to establish their arguments against abortion and contraceptive methods. But do we have any scientific survey results on the success (or failure) rate of Natural Family Planning? At least, I haven't seen any prolife session talking about them. One thing most of such sessions fail to highlight is the fact that the success of NFP very much depends on the predicability of fertile days in women (unless the couple is determined to apply self-control during more than 70% of the days, in order to avoid undesired/unexpected pregnancy). What is the percentage of the women having non-standard periods? What is the percentage of the women having varying menstrual-fertility cycle? How predictable is the fertile days in women? What are the factors which can have an effect in the period cycle? Don't these factors include physical/psychological shocks, stress etc? Howmany of these questions are answered in our pro-life sessions and pre-marriage courses? Even if answered, are they backed up with solid scientific proofs? No Christian ( I mean one who follows Christ) can really support abortion, we should live with unexpected/undesired pregnancy as we do with any other disaster. But what are the psychological effects on the parents and child in such cases. It is a pity that most of the prolife preachers purposefully avoid talking about these things and spend most of their time bashing abortion/contraception. I am not arguing that the contraception or abortion is the right method to avoid undesired children. But we should know all the available facts before taking a decision. And sometimes we have to choose a smaller evil from bigger ones. I feel we should take some bold steps here. Can we conduct a survey among JY couples to determine the percentage of people following NFP and their success rate? We can have the survey done via web (probably anonymously) and results can be published on our homepage. Then we can guide our youth based on some practical (and living) facts. You are most welcome to comment on the topic and answer any or all of my questions above. Feel free to express your opinions. With love of Jesus, Bijoy Benoy Mathew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject : pro life Date : Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:41:15 -0500 Dear Friends, We have been having a lot of discussion on the subject of contraceptive methods.I appreciate all the different views put forward by different people on the subject.I feel it would be good if someone(preferably a catholic priest or someone well versed on the official doctrines of the catholic church) would plse come forward and state the official and correct doctrine of the catholic church regarding this as I feel many of us have doubts regarding where the church actually stands on this issue at present.Patrick in one of his mails wrote that some years back the Catholic Bishops allowed disobediance to the Humanae Vitae of Pope Paul VI.In this context I feel it is high time that someone clarifies what the official doctrine is. Plse do continue to contribute to this issue. Thanks Praise Jesus Ur brother in Christ Benoy >From : "Manoj Sunny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To : "Manoj Sunny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To : <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date : Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:43:38 +0530 Hello Friends, It is so nice to see that our JYNet is becoming very active and useful. Beena's interview for registering for PhD went on well. Thank You very much for your prayers. I think the suggestions Mathew has made is very relevent. Since this is a fight against the other world also, Prayer will be one of the most powerful weapons. As many of you know, Pro life is a very active ministry in the Jesus Youth. We have organised many awareness pgms., a number of training progms. to prepare many volunteers to fight against this evil, prepared many materials, slides, a set of 100 posters for conducting exhibitions..etc. Now Dr. Sindhu( co-ordinator of Prolife ministry) is working on the possibility of a National Pro Life Conference which will be organised by CCBI, in collabration with all other pro life movements in India. We are proposing it from 2nd to 4th June,2000 to be conducted in Cochin. As you can imagine, a lot of problems are there in the organisation of this Conference. Please do pray for us. Also,we can offer support in any of your projects to fight against this culture. We can help you by providing materials, posters of organising Exhibitions,set of slides, vidieos, small booklets etc.. Let's work together against this deadly evil so that the mission of Jesus in the earth -to give life in its abundance- will be experienced by many souls. Love, Manoj Sunny "jini joseph" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To : <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject : Doubt to be clarified Date : Sat, 8 Apr 2000 11:32:45 -0500 I have come across somebody saying, that they do not want children, instead like to adopt a child. The raeson is they have seen once mother therasa's orphanage and felt there are are lot of children wanting to have parent's affection and there is no other reason. Nothing wrong with the couples and decided not to to have their own children. Ofcurse they can't do it for all the children may be can save one or two children's life. Is there anything wrong if they do this or Is there any Catholic rule says it is not correct. I am not sure about it. Can somebody answer this? love & prayers Jini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject : Re: Culture of Death Date : Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:58:53 EDT Dear Friends, I saw several emails on abortion and contraception from our friends. But nobody seemed to have mentioned anything about the health of the mother. Abortion and even frequent pregnancies can be very bad on the women who have them. Abortion can be even more harder on the mother later on due to the feeling of guilt. So could you say that occasional use of contraceptives to avoid very frequent pregnancies that can be hard on the mother, to be as big an evil as abortion? Colombo, Sri Lanka Visit my web page : www.crash.to/suresh **************************************************************** This mail is generated from JOYnet, a Jesus Youth mailing list. To unsubscribe, send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe to this mailing list, visit http://www.jesusyouth.org/joynet For automatic help, send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] In case of any issue related to the mailing list contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] ****************************************************************