Tom,
You make a good point, but using XML/XSL for presentation is probably
going to take a while to catch on. If you can get away with requiring the
latest web browser that supports XML/XSL (how well does IE 5 do that?),
then the only remaining benefit of JSP is dynamic compilation, which is
nice when developing.
I'm a big believer in separating content from presentation, so I can't
wait for the day when all the apps I write generate XML/XSL. In the
meantime, however, I have to be realistic and accept the blurred lines of
technologies like JSP.
Jack Humphrey
Software Developer, Trilogy Software, Inc.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A mailing list about Java Server Pages specification and reference
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tom Clarke
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 1999 9:31 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: JSP vs XML
>
>
> This is all true, but I don't see how it explains why JSP should be used
> over say Servlets.
>
> My point is that JSP, being just a Servlet with syntactic sugar, doesn't
> provide you with any advantages over using a servlet directly when the
> output is XML.
>
> This is because any programmer can write good XML - in a way
> they can't with
> HTML - and therefore there doesn't need to be a seperation of
> duties between
> sitebuilders and programmers. The presentation people get in on
> the act for
> the stylesheets.
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> Tom Clarke 665 Broadway
> Senior Technical Consultant New York, NY 10012
> AGENCY.COM V 212.358.8220 x2798
> F 212.982.3105
> B [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arthur Alexander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sunday, March 21, 1999 8:38 PM
> Subject: Re: JSP vs XML
>
>
> >That would be true if all XML was designed for
> >expressing data related to pages of content, that
> >could be parsed by a style sheet and given layout
> >characteristics. In fact, this was the origin of
> >the focus of the XML/XSL design, as well as that
> >of SGML/HTML. But they have taken on larger roles
> >due to the ability of the format to encapsulate
> >structure and meta-data along with content.
> >
> >Today XML is quickly replacing the older EDI
> >(electronic document interface) specifications by
> >the ISO (X21 and others, I believe). It is going
> >beyond that and providing a packaging mechanic for
> >any structured data, including embedded data, and
> >what are called 'data islands'.
> >
> >This provides structure similar to that envisioned
> >in the model of MS COM OLE (Object Linking and
> >Embedding) where the idea is that you wrap all
> >related elements of content into a general container
> >that is meant to be one expression of how content
> >from many locations and formats relate to one
> >another. The individual content islands have meaning
> >that is quite separate from the container, and have
> >renderings that are not native to that container.
> >
> >Having a general model and mechanic for expressing
> >that model (in java particularly) will become quite
> >handy to anyone working in such an environment,
> >whether that be commerce oriented or otherwise.
> >
> >I would further speculate that if XML goes on to
> >gather onto itself the concept of behaviours, as
> >has the HTML spec., than we could be looking at
> >the birth of a new object model, one that is
> >expressed in text streams and an open standard.
> >
> >Java would then be performing the work of a
> >'bridge' between object environments, one that
> >runs (hopefully) considerably faster than a parser
> >would, but is not really an "OPEN" standard in
> >the true sense of the word.
> >
> >Many organizations are at work right now defining
> >this object based infrastructure, some only in the
> >sense of commerce communications data standards, and
> >others in the more object oriented sense, of having
> >an XML data island conform to an object data stream
> >model, and having an object backed standard to
> >reconstitute the stream and give it the necessary
> >behavioural characteristics.
> >
> >An as yet unofficial effort that is being hinted at
> >in the press is related to Microsoft moving their
> >Active Data Object model (ADO) into an XML based
> >standard. We some hint of this in ADO 2.1 and the
> >new IE5 DOM. I still believe that Java has the
> >upper hand in the ability to create more open
> >standards and have them accepted and touted in
> >the press and industry quicker, but the merging of
> >Java, and other technologies such as COM, with XML
> >should not be quickly discounted.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: A mailing list about Java Server Pages specification
> >and reference
> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Tom Clarke
> >Sent: Sunday, March 21, 1999 2:23 PM
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: Re: JSP vs XML
> >
> >
> >It occurs to me that a JSP/XML combination is unneccessary.
> >
> >The main reason for JSPs existance is to allow an 'HTML
> >presentation expert'
> >to embed snippets of code. With XML, presentation has
> >already been separated
> >out - the presentation expert would build stylesheets - and
> >embedding the
> >XML in directly a Servlet or CGI would have few
> >disadvantages.
> >
> >
> >Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >Tom Clarke 665 Broadway
> >Senior Technical Consultant New York, NY 10012
> >AGENCY.COM V 212.358.8220 x2798
> > F 212.982.3105
> > B [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
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