Hi again,
I did not say that model 2 must be "de-emphasized" or "removed". I did not say
that model 1 must be used simply because it is easier. There was a question in this
thread about what is easier for a newbie made by people that does not seem so. As I
have recently start to work with it I though that I could give my "personal"
impressions about it to help.
I agree that specs are what they are, not tutorials. Certainly are implemetors of
jsp who must give us a better documentation (by the way Sun is one of them). But I
also think that apart from implementors a better documentation about it, must be
available from Sun if they want people to join Jsp and use it (and buy what
implementors do). Not everybody can afford buying good (but sometimes expensive)
tools from implementors with superb manuals. I agree Jsp is really young, but
without a better documentation now (IMHO) most of the people is going to choose
others like asp, and changing once you start developing is very difficult.
Craig McClanahan wrote:
> I have been reading this thread with alternating feelings of amusement and
> alarm. I'd like to add a few thoughts of my own.
>
> Carlos Alonso wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > First of all, I must say I do not have a lot of experience working
> > with jsp. From a "newbie" point of view, I think that model 1 is easier
> > to understand and use than model 2.
> >
>
> Like any broadly useful technology, JSP is going to have users and developers
> with a wide range of background and skills. In my case, I plan to build very
> large scale, internationalized (i.e. multilingual), complex business
> applications. I don't have a problem with a technology that is easy for a
> newbie to learn, but I get concerned when people suggest that features
> critically important to my needs (i.e. the Model 2 approach) should be
> "de-emphasized" or "removed".
>
> >
> > >> (Jason said:)
> > >>1. Model 2 is poorly explained in the spec. This in itself is a
> > serious problem.
> >
> > The whole spec is quite poor in details and specially model 2 it is just
> > introduced without a serious explanation (that it really deserves).
> >
>
> It is important to understand who the intended audience for a specification
> (and a reference implementation, for that matter) is. The purpose of the
> specification is to describe to *implementors* of the technology what it should
> do, not to *users* of the technology how to design and code their apps. That
> is the domain of Application Development Guides, tutorials, and so on. JSP is
> a little too young to have much in the way of this kind of documentation -- but
> the spec is only slightly too sparse in details for the intended audience.
>
> >
> > About new 0.92 tags, at first sight some seem to me needless (eg.
> > <DISPLAY ... vs <% out.print...) but now i think they could be useful.
> > If you use a HTML editor like HotMP, you can add (to its dictionary) new
> > tags and their corresponding fields and they are checked like any other
> > HTML tag. You will also have an attribute inspector to let you enter its
> > parameters values. In HTML editor, no syntax checking is performed on <%
> > out.print... but will warn you if <DISPLAY ... tag is mispelled. As
> > HTML (so jsp) pages are normally changed by people who are not java
> > programmers there is fewer risk of mistakes.
> >
> > Just to end, I think that it is necessary to keep jsp as simple as
> > possible. Model 1 is a good choice and easy way to start with jsp (at
> > least for me) Model 2 need a better documentation that explains it
> > deeply.
> >
>
> Model 2 definitely needs better documentation, but IMHO it shouldn't be in the
> spec -- it should be in white papers describing the entire model 2 application
> design. There is just such a white paper on IBM's web site (I believe it's
> www.software.ibm.com) in the E-Commerce section, with a really good overview of
> how web application development technologies (including JSP and servlets) fit
> together.
>
> Craig McClanahan
>
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