Chris, thank you very much for starting this thread! You meet the point with your statements! Especially your following statement is true: "As a Java programmer, *I* prefer the scripted code too". I guess that most of the users of this list are, of course, Java programmers and can't imagine what it means to tell those who write the UIs that they can't use the new tags anymore. With 0.92 I was so happy to tell them: "Hey man, just a handful of new tags and a new world is opened for you". And they were willing to use these tags because they were simple to use, and that's the point: the were indeed simple and they were good enough for the famous 90% (as stated in the 0.92 specs). For sure they were not perfect as the discussions have shown here, but they did their job! I have presented JSP to many customers, always emphasizing the statemenmt: "don't use Java in JSP files". And now???? For me, JSP 1.0 was a shock! The tags were THE arguments for me. Now I'm standing in the rain. > You know what? As a Java programmer, *I* prefer the scripted code too. No > proprietary junk, more control (I mean, what if I wanted to loop backwards? > I 'd be hosed if I were using LOOP) -- it's just plain better. Unfortunately > (well, fortunately, actually ;) I'm not the person writing this stuff -- I'm > writing beans & servlets & my customers (they're not really *my* customers, > btw) are writing UIs that use them. And they are not (by & large, and I hope > none of them are reading this) programmers. > And if you align the > code like you > have in your first example, it doesn't look that terrible: I agree, that's a much better way to align the code, though it still obfuscates the braces, which I don't care for. The JSP example code (as you know, I'm sure) does this: <TABLE> <% RowBean[] rows = results.getRows(); for (int i = 0; i < rows.length; i++) { %> <TR> etc. but I think that's probably worse. > There are formatting beans out there if you want to move the code > generation > into a formatting bean. I believe IBM has a number of them. Or you could > easily write a bean to produce your output. That's probably the right solution, given the current state of JSP. I'm not blown away by IBM's JSP beans, but I'll take a closer look -- they might do the trick. Bottom line, though is this: JSP 1.0 makes it significantly more difficult for the people who are using my software to create their UIs. chris =========================================================================== To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For general help, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "help". =========================================================================== To unsubscribe, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "signoff JSP-INTEREST". For general help, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and include in the body of the message "help".