Chris, thank you very much for starting this thread! You meet the point
with your statements! Especially your following statement is true: "As a
Java programmer, *I* prefer the scripted code too". I guess that most of
the users of this list are, of course, Java programmers and can't imagine
what it means to tell those who write the UIs that they can't use the new
tags anymore. With 0.92 I was so happy to tell them: "Hey man, just a
handful of new tags and a new world is opened for you". And they were
willing to use these tags because they were simple to use, and that's the
point: the were indeed simple and they were good enough for the famous 90%
(as stated in the 0.92 specs). For sure they were not perfect as the
discussions have shown here, but they did their job! I have presented JSP
to many customers, always emphasizing the statemenmt: "don't use Java in
JSP files". And now???? For me, JSP 1.0 was a shock! The tags were THE
arguments for me. Now I'm standing in the rain.
> You know what? As a Java programmer, *I* prefer the scripted code too. No
> proprietary junk, more control (I mean, what if I wanted to loop
backwards?
> I 'd be hosed if I were using LOOP) -- it's just plain better.
Unfortunately
> (well, fortunately, actually ;) I'm not the person writing this stuff --
I'm
> writing beans & servlets & my customers (they're not really *my*
customers,
> btw) are writing UIs that use them. And they are not (by & large, and I
hope
> none of them are reading this) programmers.
> And if you align the
> code like you
> have in your first example, it doesn't look that terrible:
I agree, that's a much better way to align the code, though it still
obfuscates the braces, which I don't care for. The JSP example code (as you
know, I'm sure) does this:
<TABLE>
<%
RowBean[] rows = results.getRows();
for (int i = 0; i < rows.length; i++) {
%>
<TR>
etc.
but I think that's probably worse.
> There are formatting beans out there if you want to move the code
> generation
> into a formatting bean. I believe IBM has a number of them. Or you
could
> easily write a bean to produce your output.
That's probably the right solution, given the current state of JSP. I'm not
blown away by IBM's JSP beans, but I'll take a closer look -- they might do
the trick. Bottom line, though is this: JSP 1.0 makes it significantly more
difficult for the people who are using my software to create their UIs.
chris
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