as for me it is not a problem "copying" the ASP format ..." But from my opinion it is not enough. The good stuff from ASP is a database integration (I do not talk here about quality of that, do not flame please :-). ADO it is a first stuff why people are using ASP (again, it is my opinion and experience only). By the way I think CF success is also here. What I can see from JSP is a lack of such things. From the my point of view JSP people pay too much attention to the syntax sugar rather than to real contents. I do not think tag library can help (at least in the re-incarnation I can see now). So, why I was 'agree' ?. The backgroung of Jason's article from the my point of view is a statement that JSP is not a only one solution. You can reach the same goals with the different ways. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, >100% agree with Geoff > >being so far away from .au domain but sharing the same idea >we developed alaJSP tool :-) Im sorry..I have to disagree with you guys. JSP compiling into servlets is a very nice feature in my mind. It allows fast page returns for a multi-client page hit, since a servlet does a context switch instead of a new process/creation of the servlet on each request. I do agree that the older version and even the new version could use some refinements, including a standard tag library, which I think JSP 1.2 will introduce. But..it is a work in progress. As for "copying" the ASP format..I think a few things are not clear. First, since MS and SUN see things differently, and in my opinion, SUN is more for the people and developers than MS is (thats apparent since everyone running the MS OS is pretty much a QA tester for the OS and their products..seeing as how none of their stuff ever really works good). But, as far as getting JSP out there..what better way to market it in a similar fashion as to the most used technology at the time? For those saying JSP is one letter away from ASP, well..what would you call it? JSP = Java Server Pages..that is what they are. What other acronym can you use here? And why does it matter? Sure, J and A have the same sound, but so what? Now, as far as "they copied" MS..I dont agree. ASP = VBScript, JSP = Java. There is a BIG difference in my opinion. I dont know if ASP is compiled into .exe files to run faster, or .dlls that get loaded or what, but JSP turns into a servlet that stays in memory after the first hit, and from what I can tell, being from BOTH camps, JSP is running much faster than ASP. Ofcourse we aren't talking about speed, we are talking more about the way its implemented. Well, a properly implemented JSP site should allow normal HTML editors to do their wonders with HTML, and only have to learn a small subset of the JSP syntax. In actuality, you could break a JSP website into a few areas. JSP/JavaBean developers do the JavaBean work, and specify the JSP API that pages can use to display dynamic content. The web developers simply include these calls on their pages where needed. They dont have to worry about the scriplet stuff. Infact, with a standard taglib (which I do agree..should have been made available with JSP 1.1) there is no reason HTML editors shouldn't work with the taglibs. However, JSP is a "newer" technology and WebSPhere studio is just one tool that allows a normal HTML developer use a tool that not only can they visually design web pages, but drag/drop components right on a page and get or set the properties. I am sorry, but HTML wont be around forever..new stuff will come out, such as XML that is better, allows more flexibility, etc. When they move to XML and some new technology comes out that does even better stuff, like 3D or something, what then? We will have people saying stuff like "XML developers shouldn't have to worry about VRML, and the XSP that sun developed is just a copy of AXMP that MS did". These battles will go on forever. Well, until Sun supercedes MS anyways. ;) At any rate, I dont want to start a flame war, but its clear that HTML developers will have to move ahead with new ways of working pages as new technologies prevail. They cant always just do HTML and thats it. They will lost their jobs with new developers that can do more. HTML is old, but is still used. XML is newer, and JSP fits in with XML well. In a few years, maybe JSP will be superceded with a new technology that allows stuff we cant do yet. We will have to "adapt" as the Borg of StarTrek commonly say. Thats the way of life as I see it. Sorry..just my 2 cents worth back. Kevin Duffey Software Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED] ColdJava: java server side programming http://coldjava.hypermart.net ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com. =========================================================================== To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST". FAQs on JSP can be found at: http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
