Can anyone send me my passwd ? I wanted to unsubscribe but could not without a damn passwd.
I remember we used to send reminders of the password. > > Architect and Senior Vice > > President of Advanced Development at BEA System, > > Bosworth is much more > > involved in shaping the future of Web Services. > > > > Kirk McKusick (KM) managed the development and > > release of 4.3BSD and 4.4BSD > > and is renowned for his work on virtual memory > > systems and fast file system > > performance. In recent years he has achieved > > prominence as one of the > > leaders of the Open Source movement. > > > > Interview Excerpts > > > > [Question/Answer 14 -- This is just for lead-in to > > the good stuff.] > > > > KM How does BPEL fit into the scheme? > > AB Well, it turns out that the advent of > > message-driven paradigms is driving > > the requirement for workflow. BPEL basically > allows > > you to script that > > workflow. And to understand why that's important, > > let's look at Visual Basic > > for an analogy. One of the great strengths of > Visual > > Basic is that if gives > > you something almost anyone can use -- a form > > designer. And something > > something a programmer, or even a non-programmer > can > > employ to indicate how > > an application would work. > > Likewise, to design and control workflow, you > > need a visual designer > > that even mere mortals can use but which also > > incorporates some solution > > that systems programmers can use to extend these > > models (creating what we > > call "adapters"). But the question is: What > happens > > when messages come back > > to say that some additional procedural action is > > required? How can mere > > mortals be expected to deal that that? Our > customers > > want an answer there > > because that would effectively make work flow > > available to the mass market. > > But first we have to have a standard. And that's > > very tricky because > > ultimately you're describing something that will > > extend the whole > > programming model. BPEL is the result of an > effort > > by Microsoft, BEA and > > others to start solving that problem -- which is > to > > say: how to provide a > > standard model for writing workflow? > > In terms of implementing that, the plan here > at > > BEA is to essentially > > use metadata to drive the required extended > > programming for workflow > > semantics so that the programming language for our > > customers will still be > > Java. An that's because we don't think our > customers > > really want a another > > programming language -- let alone one described in > > XML grammar. > > > > [Good stuff begins here.] > > > > KM How does that compare the the .NET approach? My > > sense is that the .NET > > philosophy might best be summarized as "any > > language, one platform," where > > as the Java approach is more a matter of "one > > language, any platform." > > AB Back when I worked for Microsoft, I built > complex > > infrastructures for > > customers. I was quite proud of the work because I > > felt we'd secede in > > bringing together all the tools our customers > > needed. We'd given them > > Visual Basic to build forms, and we'd given them > > active server pages, and > > we'd given them XSLT to do conversions between XML > > and HTML. And we'd given > > them C to write code, and so and so forth. > > But then I had an opportunity to meet with a > lot > > of customer, who > > explained that it's incredibly hard to train > people > > and -- all thing being > > equal -- they'd just as soon train people in only > > one language. And almost > > without exception, they told me that's just > exactly > > why they found Java so > > appealing. They said that, in their view, Java had > > finally gotten to a point > > where it had enough power to satisfy the average > > systems programmer. And > > yet, it also managed to hide most of the > complexity > > that's historically made > > something like C a very tricky language. Garbage > > collection, for example, is > > something that Java just automatically handles for > > you. The same thing holds > > true for multiple inheritance. So that effectively > > gave them one > > comprehensive solution, and they just loved that. > > At the same time, I don't know many of our > > customers that have just one > > platform. So it would be arrogant for us to say we > > didn't feel we needed to > > make out product cross-platform. The value of > > cross-language, on the other > > hand, is much less clear. In fact, for most of our > > customers, it's as much a > > curse as a blessing. And that's because issues > tend > > to arise when all your > > programmers are using different languages in > > different ways. Now if Java > > were intrinsically a hard language, or an > inherently > > limited one, I think > > there would still be a good argument for having > > multiple languages. But Java > > is intrinsically a pretty easy language. The hard > > thing about learning Java > > isn't Java itself. It's J2EE and all the plumbing > > required to build > > scalable transactional applications. And frankly, > > we've bee investing a lot > > of our time here trying to make it a lot easier. > > So the .NET idea about many languages being a > > good thing, I believe, is > > quite open to debate. Now, bear in mind that I > come > > from Microsoft and still > > have the highest respect for the engineers who > built > > .NET. But I've yet to > > hear of a customer problem that was solved as a > > consequence of having > > multiple languages. And I've heard of plenty of > > customer problems have been > > caused by having multiple languages. So, I guess > > you'd have to consider me a > > bit of a skeptic. > > > > KM Well let's say you're right about that. But > .NET > > does come from > > Microsoft, and Microsoft does exercise a fair > amount > > of market clout. Can't > > they just essentially ram .NET down people's > > throats? > > AB Microsoft doesn't drive the market when it > comes > > to enterprise computing. > > What they've really done is create an alternative, > > which I consider healthy. > > It's making the J2EE people over at Sun wake up > and > > evolve their > > capabilities a lot faster. For the customer, this > is > > nothing but good news. > > In any case, what it really all comes down to is > how > > you handle the Web > > Services stack. And the truth is both J2EE and > .NET > > still have a room to > > grow on the account. > > What might be more germane to you question is > > that, for all the clout > > Microsoft wields, they're still trying with mixed > > success to extend their > > reach into the enterprise world from their > > long-established stronghold in > > the desktop world. J2EE, on the other hand, is > > already widely used by almost > > every Fortune 500 company to deliver just about > > every mission-critical > > application you can imagine. And we also know that > > enterprises are using > > J2EE on their Unix and Linux and mainframe > > platforms, because they're > > certainly not using .NET for that. In fact, I > think > > you have to wonder what > > will become of .NET if Linux should someday become > > ubiquitous. As you > > suggest, history has shown that at the end of the > > day, there tends to be > > only one winner in the software standards wars. > And > > right now, while BT is > > obviously a huge factor in the enterprise > computing > > space, it's my sense > > that Linux is growing much more rapidly. And if > that > > continues to be the > > case -- with J2EE being a natural partner to Linux > > -- I'd have to think that > > .NET is perhaps in a world of trouble. > > > > [Question/Answer 19] > > > > KM But what are you going to be most closely > > identified with? It's obvious > > to everyone that5 Microsoft promotes .NET and Sun > > pushes Java. But what flag > > is BEA waving? > > AB We are the poster-child of J2EE. We're the > > original J2EE application > > server and we're still by far and away the best > J2EE > > application server. IBM > > is waving the J2EE flag as well. But what sets us > > apart is that we're > > focusing on innovations required to make a easier. > > There are roughly > > speaking 10 million people today who write code > and > > probably less than a > > million of them are really productive in J2EE > right > > now. We're changing that > > by seeing to it that everyone who's a developer > can > > actually work with it. > > > > [There is more, but that's enough for now.] > > > > Dennis Laws > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! 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