On 3/15/07, Alan DuBoff <Alan.DuBoff at sun.com> wrote:

> > The e.V. even gave us a semi-official
> > green light to break binary compatibility, if we come up with better
> > code. If we have a good rationale for breaking BC, then it's ok to
> > break it. As long as we don't do it every two weeks. :-) The only
> > restriction is that it should also compile with a recent GCC.
>
> I will caution against deviating from what the mainline project is doing. You
> need to lobby your rationale to us, the community!<wink>
>
> In general I don't want us to create more work for ourselves than is needed.
> The DCOP/Corba change sounded like it could haunt us. I know that Corba works
> better for us, and KDE was Corba at one point, but changed to DCOP, at least
> that is my understanding. Isn't that true?

KDE used CORBA in the late '90s. Back then, the freebie CORBA
implementations sucked. This is why KDE decided to re-write a
CORBA-ish DCOP. The problem with DCOP is that it is very slow. Porting
DCOP to CORBA is not very difficult, since the design of the IPC/RPC
mechanism in KDE was originally written in CORBA anyway. Plus, DCOP
does not support SSL, which omniORB does.

> But do you see ANY? There's a difference between not being able to get the
> changes upstream and being able to. If they can at least get them upstream,
> one of the big hurdles is elliminated.

I see quite a BIT of them, ever since i have been releasing and
publishing patches and full source for the KDE Solaris ports, at KDE,
ever since 2003. I did not pester the e.V. to accept all these patches
into HEAD/trunk because, quite honestly, they were under no obligation
to do so. KDE Solaris was not officially supported for KDE3.

> I was more concerned if this would be something that keeps getting thrown at
> us, like, everything we get a new rev it's full of code that won't compile on
> Solaris.

That might happen, especially for new code which gets written after
previous patches are integrated upstream. In order to achieve the
dream of having KDE simply download, ./configure, gmake and gmake
install work out-of-the box, we need to do some work .

I think most QT code is platform neutral, isn't that true?

For QT 4.2.2 it compiles pretty much without patches. For the 3.3.x
the situation changed over time, and 3.3.4/3.3.5/3.3.6/3.3.7 required
a *lot* of patches. Trolltech no longer tests with Studio 9, 10 or 11.
Only with Studio 8, and only on SPARC.


> This sound like one of the more difficult pieces, these libraries. There was
> some 1394 relates stuff that Alan Perry worked on, and David Bustos wrote a
> glue layer for some stuff in getting a web cam to work. This could be used
> for kino possibly, if we had the backend pieces.
>
> > 6. Drivers: for example there's no equivalent of video for
> > linux --v4l-- on Solaris) and because of that one can't use webcams
> > or watch tv, or edit video.
>
> This is a big part of modern software, we would need some type of solution.

> That's the whole point of this project, we need a SunStudio compiled version
> if we want the plugins to work and not crap out on us. At least this is my
> understanding. When people tell me things like, "I run the blastwave KDE and
> it works good, only craps out occasionally", I don't consider that to be
> software I want to run. I don't like when my desktop disappears all of the
> sudden.

Yes, i agree 100%. I also think that a "Desktop" should allow one to
download photos from my digital camera, organize them, watch movies,
edit video, play radio or tv, listen to my iPod and sync my Palm
Pilot/Cell Phone with my addressbook. All these things exist as open
source today. They just need Solaris work. Often *a lot* of Solaris
work.

> There's a new DX coming out soon, but I wouldn't mind using DX as a base, that
> way it would allow other developers to sync up and/or get involved more
> easily. We need to get a standard development environment, and that means
> getting things rolling on nevada, IMO.

I'll upgrade to the new DX when it's out.

> > I talked to the e.V. about the CORBA bindings a while ago, and the
> > official reply was: if there is working code, it will be integrated
> > upstream. That's one of the reasons the CORBA vs. DCOP study was
> > done. KDE doesn't handle projects the way a corporation does. If one
> > wants a certain module, or functionality, to be integrated into KDE
> > mainline, one starts with code. If it's good, it will make it
> > upstream.
>
> As long as we can push upstream we should be ok.

Yes. Plus, the way i'm thinking of doing this, it's not intrusive. It
will be a separate module, in a separate directory in kdelibs.
Compiling with CORBA as opposed to compiling with DCOP will be a
./configure option (./configure --with-corba --<bla-bla-bla>). This
makes the integration upstream much easier (the disturbance of the
existing code is minimal). Passing --enable-corba to configure will
prevent the building of DCOP.

> I guess that would be John Rice and Co.? Or Glynn Foster's group. I'm not sure
> who's working on the desktop. KDE is my desktop, and nobody is working on it
> yet...:-/

I think it's Glynn Foster's group (based on the emails i saw).

Is Mesa integrated in Nevada x86 ? We're going to have some fun
figuring out how to decouple Mesa/OpenGL/QT from the Xorg open source
drivers and the nVIDIA proprietary drivers ...

--Stefan

-- 
Stefan Teleman
KDE e.V.
stefan.teleman at gmail.com

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