On 06/29/2014 06:37 PM, Vincent Pinon
wrote:
I have developed a framework (besides the multimedia stuff) that allows me to do things w/ the Oracle DB that have not been accomplished before. I call it a logical user-extensibility framework for the database. Essentially, I make the DB smarter. By doing so, I can move code that had to be placed in the middle tier down to the data layer. This has very significant implications when it comes to system architecture, stability and security. That's part of the reason I have a multimedia framework, including the user-extensibility part and Kdenlive integration, that amounts to less than 1.5 Mb. of software.Hello Steve, Thanks a lot for your enthusiastic mail... sorry if my replies (inline) don't sound so optimistic: not your fault, it's just that I haven't been very successful last times with this code and my hanger may leak into these lines :-)Le jeudi 26 juin 2014, 15:22:00 Steve Guilford a écrit :[...] Lately, I been working on a very compact and powerful framework for the Oracle database that allows it to be used as a warehousing, streaming, transcoding, editing and rendering platform.I know almost nothing about DB, but is it hard to make it run on other(s) DB engines that would come from the FOSS world? And why is your work focused on Kdenlive and not MLT in general? If I can write less code to accomplish a given task and have more flexibility, stability and security, that's what I'm gonna do. Leaves me w/ more time for skiing and sailing. My play in the multimedia space is just the first area that I am trying to prove the worth of my underlying systems integration tools. If the techniques prove to be useful, I'm sure they'll make their way to the FOSS marketplace at some point. An occurrence I would support. Can other DB's do what I'm doing w/ Oracle? Maybe but I do not have the time presently to pursue that avenue. One thing at a time. Another factor is the enterprise implications. I believe that, at the extreme, a service such as what I am proposing requires enterprise class computing resources -both hardware and software. As a cloud based service, the users will never see or know that an Oracle DB forms the backbone - as many don't when it comes to Amazon or Salesforce. A system such as what I'm proposing also has significant local, enterprise class sales opportunities (i.e. studios, gov't etc etc.) In those instances, an enterprise based solution w/ integrated hardware, software, support etc. is more attractive - in my opinion. I have no qualms against using FOSS software but at the same token I am also not opposed to using proprietary solutions if the cost/benefit analysis is favourable. As far as MLT, Kdenlive was my entry to NLEs and rendering technologies. I'll get to MLT in a bit. I suspect that I'll be able to off-load the rendering tasks from Kdenlive to the 'system' w/ MLT. That should be neat-o. Why not indeed. I believe I have the concepts coexisting smoothly at present.[...] Kdenlive now has the potential to be the first cloud enabled, location independent, database capable video editing platform. Given that the need for physical files has been eliminated, it also qualifies as potentially the most secure architecture available. I hope to be able to post my modifications upstream in the near future.I'm kind of a old school boy, and cloud is *for me* not a priority at the moment. But it may interest many other people, so if both versions can coexist smoothly why not? Please don't confuse my use of Oracle w/ a desire to steer Kdenlive in one direction vs. another. Keep in mind that my interface points are straight SQL. So, any other DB that can implement a MM framework such as mine would be able to replace the Oracle backend. Therefore, I see my changes to Kdenlive as being applicable to any other platform.[...] In my opinion, the only way that Kdenlive can survive is to have a 'corporate sponsor'; one that has a vested interest in seeing the project supported and improved. I am trying to build just such a business model. I am looking to build a location independent, cloud enabled video editing environment.Corporate sponsor can be comfortable for sure, and generally a good basis for quality, but as in your example, it can drive the app in mainly one special direction. I'll grab a life-vest and a manual bilge pump off of my sailboat.[...] I've become somewhat familiar with Kdenlive's internals. From what I've been seeing in the forum/dev-list traffic, there are not many that have an in-depth knowledge of Kdenlive. That's obviously a big problem.Agreed :-/I'd like to help !!!Hurray! Please, jump into the boat ;-) I don't think the docs would be quickly obsolete. But, before we tear off into a refactoring effort, just what are we trying to accomplish w/ a refactor? Are we just renaming variable, routines, modules and restructuring the source-tree? If so, developer's documentation will be important to that task.[...] We need to create a developer's roadmapneed to merge and sort ideas, will be discussed in Randaand documentation. This is critical.100% agree: it took me so long to roughly understand what happens where, and there are still many dark areas. The problem is that there is an obvious need for code refactoring, almost the 1st thing to do, so if we write a doc now it will be quickly (?) obsolete. So far, from what I've seen, there's no document that spells out the goals of a refactoring effort. Creating such a document will then allow us to formulate a plan of action to accomplish the desired goals. Another thing to consider is that gathering system/developer's documentation will allow us to come up to speed w/ Kdenlive's architecture before we start tearing it apart. Yes..that's the hope !!!We also need to dispel the myth that a video editor is way to complicated 'for me' when somebody approaches this project for the first time.Hum, it's true that it is not so easy in its globality! But I hope that with another code organization it would be easier to play with internals... I don't think the developer's documentation will need to be updated frequently. We'll have a significant push at first but then things will slow down.The developer's roadmap would be an evolving set of documents w/ provisions for user comments and contributions etc. I think some of these items in the roadmap need to be in place before we start altering code. Other items can be filled in as we go along.Problem: this is boring, and good wills have their limits ;-) If you're writing code on a 600px high display, I feel sorry for you. :-)[...] there's really no way to brace and indent code other than GNU style. Yes, it increases the vertical size of code somewhat but do remember that when K&R style was introduced, we were coding on VT-102 terminals w/ 80x24 screens. (I have an original edition of K&R's Learning to Program in 'C' book - a classic - but I digress) So, vertical size was an issue then. Now - not so much. However, in my mind, K&R style's legacy of hard to read code and style-induced bugs prevails. As you might have surmised, Kdenlive uses K&R style. So, that would be the first code change I'd recommend - and it really would not involve any logic changes whatsoever. It would be relatively straightforward and easy. Braces on separate lines and 2 character indent levels. I think that making these changes would be very important to our ability to attract other coders. Hard to read code is always a turn-off.Just a run of "indent" away... But actually the free time I'm giving is mostly in the transportations, on a small 10" (600px height) display, so size matters (a bit) to me! I didn't think formatting could be such an important issue... If only we had the same as "go format"?! Coding can be frustrating enough as it is... Don't know....Refactoring the code so that its easier to understand and modify will be crucial if we are to have a platform that is conducive to encompassing new features and capabilities. The refactoring effort would also include a re-organization of the source code tree. This provides a means of splitting the code into distinct MVC sections and have source files organized within separate subdirectories. Thanks For Reading This Far !!!How long does the last technical discussion date back on this list? :-) No worries. I know that Oracle is not for everyone.That's all I've got for right now. I hope some find this interesting and I look forward to possibly helping out w/ Kdenlive. If anybody has access to an Oracle DB (you can download and install one for free for evaluation/development purposes) I'll set you up w/ my Multimedia framework. It's all of 1.5Mb in size (I rounded up)."free" here is not the one I like, sorry for being sensitive on the topic :-) I'm getting 'linked in'....!!! Time to evolve from a lurker to a participant...!!!If you need help setting up an Oracle DB, I can help w/ that too. It's easier than it looks.... Sincerely.....Steve Guilford...Thanks again for offering your help. Don't hesitate to go forward: have a look at how to get involved in KDE in general; you must have a KDE account for forums, so I gess you also can edit docs in userbase/community wikis. You will have to ask an upgrade to developer account to be able to push to git (create your branch :-) )... You can find some help on this list, but also a lot in the global KDE community. -- Steve Guilford http://www.dbplugins.com |
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