On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 11:11:45PM +0800, Yubin Ruan wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 16, 2018 at 04:24:41PM -0500, [email protected] wrote:
> > On Tue, 16 Jan 2018 22:15:39 +0530, inventsekar said:
> >
> > > PS - when I send mail to this DL, I thought I would receive my own
> > > mail(similar to Google groups DL), as I am already member of the DL, but I
> > > am not getting my own mail, so I get confusion whether my mail was sent or
> > > not. On the subscription page, I looked for any options, but no luck.
> > > Please suggest
>
> I am using gmail but never notice the behaviors you stated. Thanks for your
> information. See below:
>
> > The tl;dr: If you really care, you can have the list send you a "Your
> > message was posted"
> > confirmation. Go here:
> > https://lists.kernelnewbies.org/mailman/listinfo/kernelnewbies
> > and login (you'll need the password the list has for you - if you don't
> > have it, it's
> > in the monthly reminder or you can ask it to send you a copy).
> >
> > The gory details:
> >
> > A long known issue with GMail. Basically, what should happen is this:
> >
> > 1) You send e-mail. At some point, a Message-ID header gets added, usually
> > by
> > the "Mail submission server". For the one I'm replying to, the server was
> > one
> > of Gmail's so it tacked on:
> >
> > Message-id:
> > <CAJd9=037m-jHxR-Yz4DkQvukahPE3cK1LV_HcWJRk31+=vc...@mail.gmail.com>
> >
> > The important thing here is that it's supposed to be (a) netwise unique and
> > (b)
> > remains the same across the lifetime of the message.
> >
> > 2) So say your mail was to the list, and a cc: to several people directly
> > (the
> > usual state of affairs for Linux kernel development - as "reply all" is the
> > preferred way of doing things. If I was listed directly, then I'll get two
> > copies - once for the direct copy and once from the list. (And yes, a
> > mailing
> > list is supposed to preserve the value in most cases - those interested in
> > the
> > gory details are referred to RFC 5322, section 3.6.4)
> >
> > 3) And that same Message-ID should be on both copies that I receive, which
> > means I can do duplicate suppression by simply saying "Have I seen this
> > Message-ID before?"
> >
> > Works great, except....
> >
> > When GMail sends your *outbound* mail, it remembers that Message-ID - which
> > means
> > that when your own copy comes back from the posting to the list, GMail says
> > "Hey,
> > I've seen this one before" and duplicate suppresses it. So one outbound copy
> > goes by and you don't see it, and then the other one gets munched, so you
> > don't
> > see that one either. Whoops.
>
> By "gets munched" you mean "get deleted", right? But why would the other one
> gets deleted if Gmail suppress the duplicate message? Is this your
> configuration fault?
>
> > And yes, they know about it - me and some other email experts gave Google
> > grief
> > about it when it was still in alpha/beta. But they didn't listen, for
> > reasons only they
> > understand(*)
> >
> > To make life even *more* complicated, even though my copy of posts to the
> > list gets
> > auto-deduped by GMail as it comes back, I still get a copy - because some
> > AI in there
> > has figured out "Oh, he's a list subscriber, so when he posts, we'll
> > remember the message-ID,
> > but also generate a copy right back into his inbox so he gets his list copy
> > anyhow even
> > though we already know we're going to auto-dedup it". Of course, this
> > isn't a
> > settable, nor is it very obvious what causes GMail's AI to realize this -
> > so I have
> > some lists that I get back a GMail-looped courtesy copy and some I don't.
>
> Hmm... I didn't noticed which list works and which not yet (I was not aware of
> the situation where duplicate message with same Message-ID get suppressed by
> Gmail previously). Is kernel newbie affected, or any other lists?
Oh now I observe the behavior on std-discussion (hosted on isocpp.org). Gmail
seems to automatically delete mails from the mailing list server if I Cc/Bcc
myself a copy (if the server has ever sent me a copy, which I am not sure).
But I still get a copy, and things still work smoothly.
Yubin
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