On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 10:00:09AM +0200, Gleb Natapov wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 11:35:06AM -0800, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 06:24:13PM +0200, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 08:13:54AM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 03:44:26PM +0300, Gleb Natapov wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 03:36:57PM +0300, Avi Kivity wrote:
> > > > > > On 09/12/2012 03:34 PM, Gleb Natapov wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 10:45:22AM +0300, Avi Kivity wrote:
> > > > > > >> On 09/12/2012 04:03 AM, Paul E. McKenney wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> > > Paul, I'd like to check something with you here:
> > > > > > >> >> > > this function can be triggered by userspace,
> > > > > > >> >> > > any number of times; we allocate
> > > > > > >> >> > > a 2K chunk of memory that is later freed by
> > > > > > >> >> > > kfree_rcu.
> > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > >> >> > > Is there a risk of DOS if RCU is delayed while
> > > > > > >> >> > > lots of memory is queued up in this way?
> > > > > > >> >> > > If yes is this a generic problem with kfree_rcu
> > > > > > >> >> > > that should be addressed in core kernel?
> > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > >> >> > There is indeed a risk.
> > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > >> >> In our case it's a 2K object. Is it a practical risk?
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > How many kfree_rcu()s per second can a given user cause to
> > > > > > >> > happen?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Not much more than a few hundred thousand per second per process
> > > > > > >> (normal
> > > > > > >> operation is zero).
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > I managed to do 21466 per second.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Strange, why so slow?
> > > > > >
> > > > > Because ftrace buffer overflows :) With bigger buffer I get 169940.
> > > >
> > > > Ah, good, should not be a problem. In contrast, if you ran kfree_rcu()
> > > > in
> > > > a tight loop, you could probably do in excess of 100M per CPU per
> > > > second.
> > > > Now -that- might be a problem.
> > > >
> > > > Well, it -might- be a problem if you somehow figured out how to allocate
> > > > memory that quickly in a steady-state manner. ;-)
> > > >
> > > > > > >> Good idea. Michael, is should be easy to modify kvm-unit-tests
> > > > > > >> to write
> > > > > > >> to the APIC ID register in a loop.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > I did. Memory consumption does not grow on otherwise idle host.
> > > >
> > > > Very good -- the checks in __call_rcu(), which is common code invoked by
> > > > kfree_rcu(), seem to be doing their job, then. These do keep a per-CPU
> > > > counter, which can be adjusted via rcutree.blimit, which defaults
> > > > to taking evasive action if more than 10K callbacks are waiting on a
> > > > given CPU.
> > > >
> > > > My concern was that you might be overrunning that limit in way less
> > > > than a grace period (as in about a hundred microseconds. My concern
> > > > was of course unfounded -- you take several grace periods in push 10K
> > > > callbacks through.
> > > >
> > > > Thanx, Paul
> > >
> > > Gleb noted that Documentation/RCU/checklist.txt has this text:
> > >
> > > An especially important property of the synchronize_rcu()
> > > primitive is that it automatically self-limits: if grace periods
> > > are delayed for whatever reason, then the synchronize_rcu()
> > > primitive will correspondingly delay updates. In contrast,
> > > code using call_rcu() should explicitly limit update rate in
> > > cases where grace periods are delayed, as failing to do so can
> > > result in excessive realtime latencies or even OOM conditions.
> > >
> > > If call_rcu is self-limiting maybe this should be documented ...
> >
> > It would be more accurate to say that takes has some measures to limit
> > the damage -- you can overwhelm these measures if you try hard enough.
> >
> The question is: Is it safe to have a call_rcu() without any additional rate
> limiting
> on user triggerable code path?
That would be a good way to allow users to run your system out of memory,
especially on systems with limited memory. (If you have several GB of
free space, you might be OK.)
Thanx, Paul
> > And I guess I could say something to that effect. ;-)
> >
> > Thanx, Paul
>
> --
> Gleb.
>
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