On Feb 24, 2004, at 22:50, Webwalker (Susan in Ohio) wrote:

Another problem -- ending the sentence with a preposition.

Prepositions are not to end the sentence with? <g> Always liked that one, but obeyed it sometimes only. With a language where word order "rules" (due to lack of endings), placement is a very delicate thing, and "swimming upstream" often changes the meaning/shifts the "value" of an utterance. Thus, it becomes *yet another tool*, in itself. As long as it's used judiciously, of course, like the split infinitives :)


Also, the active voice is usually more readable. How about, "Flat-felled seams automatically compensate for any errors in width"? I know this is not the question asked/answered, but readability is a good goal IMHO.

When writing an essay on flat-fell seams, I said: "any error in width will be automatically compensated for."

<VBG>
1) active voice form tends to be shorter than passive. Therefore, if you're being paid (as many authors are, tough not Joyce, who wrote the sentence) by word/line/page, it's more sensible to use passive voice :)
2) passive voice has more "weight" than active; just look at the textbooks (all the way to Adam) and see how many say: "I discovered" rather than: "it has been discovered". On top of which, I was told -- repeatedly -- never-ever to use "I" in anything other than a private letter...
3) as you say: "active voice is usually more readable"... :) A *reader* might prefer it, but, a *writer*? Who, possibly, is working to a "3.000 words or more" ultimatum, on a subject he/she has only 500 words to say? When you're trying to BS your way through a paper/book, there's every reason to use passive rather than active <g>


Another question:
The other side of the past subjunctive tense of the verb "be".

If I am not a rich man, it is correct to say, "If I were a rich man, ..." or "If I were you, ..." because these are conditions "contrary to fact".

I am looking for examples where "If I was ..." is correct; that is, when it is not contrary to fact. The only situation I can think of is where the speaker does not know the facts. For example, "If I was home when you called, I must have been in the backyard, because I didn't hear the phone ring" or "If I was at Joe's Bar and Grill last night, I must have been drunk". And to tell the truth, those are about the only examples I can think of. Help? Or am I all wet here?

Yeah, well... I was *taught* the subjunctive ("unlikely supposition" was how it was described in my curriculum) but, until the "Fiddler on the Roof" came along (with its: "if I were a rich man") and the "if I were a carpenter, and you were a lady" (another song, by Denver, I think), I never really used it, except in "if I were you". Which situation I always tired to avoid like a plague :)


With 3rd person (either singular or plural) it's, I think, a bit easier. The "if wishes were horses, beggars would ride", is a subjunctive, but is likely to be missed as such, because "wishes" and "were" are "in agreement" (both plural), so the issue of subjunctive never surfaces. In the 3rd person singular, you hear the consonance (both singlular) as often as (or more often than) as the subjunctive, at least in "common speech".

Possibly, of course, because the common speech dispenses with the subjunctive almost altogether... :)

"If he was drunk when he shot her, then I'm a Duchman"
It is -- probably -- a subjunctive, but only my DH *might* say "were" instead of "was" :) DH almost 80, and an "English professor" (retired).


"If the story was all nonsense, why did you pass it on to me?"
Truth to tell, *I don't know* if it's a subjunctive or not, so using a non-subjunctive form is "safer".
Ditto:
"Makes no diffrence if he was drunk or not; he should still be held responsible". I'd use either "was" or "were" -- whichever came to mind faster. My cleaning woman, untroubled by "subjunctive considerations", would use "was" only.


In the second example, the whole matter is muddled further by the fact that "if" can also mean "whether" (and we don't use "whether" much, becasue it's much longer, and we don't have the time for frills <g>). Substitute "whether" for "if, and you can, probably, pile up non-subjunctive examples ad infinitum.

Yours, now -- hopelessly -- tangled in the question of *why*... *Why* is it that subjunctive "functions" only in the past tense? Or does it "work" in the present tense as well and I'm simply unaware of it?

-----
Tamara P Duvall
Lexington, Virginia,  USA
Formerly of Warsaw, Poland
http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd/

To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line:
unsubscribe lace-chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] For help, write to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Reply via email to