On Aug 17, 2004, at 14:21, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Julie in Baltimore) wrote:
That's the important point of the post. Now here's just some random lace
babble:
Since I don't have the box/book I can't help there. So I'll address some of the less important points...
I've been working on the fan for a few months now. Today I was looking at
what I've done so far and I thought, boy, that gimp sure is thick. Is it
really supposed to be that thick?
Probably. I have a little booklet of Loehr's on gimps (not for general distribution, she said, as she can't be bothered to "clean" the English up to a proper standard). Quote:
"The thickness of the gimp.
Is not only a matter of taste. It is my opinion that the gimps used nowadays were often chosen too thin in comparison with old laces" [...]
Then, under some photos:
"These photos of old Chantilly show that 99% of the lacemakers used a little bit thicker, 5 to 7 times folded thread as gimp" [...]
And, in conclusion, for the Point Ground section:
Choose a gimp of the thickness about 8 folds of the lace thread. (Fold your lace thread, which might not be suitable as a gimp 8 times and compare it with the chosen gimp), i.e.: Silk 4/20 - use as gimp 6 fold 140"
So, she advocates the use of *very* think gimp (thicker even than what she herself says was the old practice <g>). Which makes it probable, that your very thick gimp is, indeed, as she intended it to be. OTOH, I have no idea how the Danish 250/3 unboiled compares, in thickness, to the Pipers' 4/20 (you're using the gimp recommended for the second, with the first)...
The other thing that bothers me is that I somehow got the idea that all
the figures were supposed to be done in half-stitch. [...]
However, the working diagram clearly shows cloth stitch, not half-stitch. The passives all go down vertically, as with cloth stitch, not slanted, as with half-stitch.
Yes, Chantilly, like Bayeux, uses -mostly - half stitch in the motifs. And yes, she draws the half stitch as if it were cloth stitch in her working diagrams (if you happen to have her "Schwarzarbeit; ein Buch uber Chantilly" you can compare), for the very reason you state: the diagrams would be either huge or unreadable otherwise. But, in the Schwarzarbeit book, she also has single-thread diagrams - much bigger, if illustrating much smaller points <g> - which leave one in no doubt as to what stitch ought to be used (even if the photos of the lace didn't show it clearly). In books where colour is used, the half stitch in motifs is still drawn the same as cloth stitch, but green is used instead of purple.
Do I actually need to make all the figures in half-stitch? Why can't I make some of the figures in half-stitch and some of them in cloth stitch? Or for that matter, all the figures in cloth stitch?
Why is Chantilly done completely in half-stitch? Does something bad happen when
you throw in cloth stitch? Is it more pleasing aesthetically to make all
figures the same way? Is half-stitch more sturdy or something than cloth stitch?
No, half stitch is not more sturdy than cloth stich, just the reverse; it's more airy, it snags more easily. Its airy-ness does, of course, add to the appeal of the lace, so you might say it *is* more aesthetically pleasing. Nothing *really* bad happens, if you throw in some cloth stitch, and Chantilly isn't always done completely in half stitch... :)
Going by my own experience and a lecture of Loehr's on Chantilly, which I attended some years ago in Ithaca...
My own experience first, since it's slimmer: half stitch fills out a motif better than cloth stitch:
Given the same distance (width) to cover, sometimes, you'd need to add extra pairs if you used cloth; you wouldn't have to, if you used half stitch. Half stitch spreads, where cloth stitch doesn't. For me, it's as simple as that (apart from adding a different dimension to the whole, of course).
Case in point: look at my website, the "non-series designs 2000-2003"; 3rd picture, "Fragrance". The stopper of the perfume bottle is made in half stitch, because there weren't enough pairs feeding into it from the ground to fill it out nicely, and I hate adding and cutting out every 30 seconds. As I was already carrying a pair-in-reserve with the gimp (needed for the body of the bottle), and as it was not a practice I'm used to, and as I didn't want to make the gimp any thicker in that spot... I decided to use half stitch. Which served the purpose nicely, IMO :)
What I remember from the lecture:
Chantilly, at its best and most complex, likes the light-and-shadow effect; it uses shading a lot. You will, therefore, see the usual net (CTTT), and kat stitch, and honecomb stitch, used both as ground and as fillings - whatever works, to get the illusion of texture accross. If many pairs are carried in reserve, they might be put to use in a cloth stitch spot also, to add yet another dimension. Or, a whole pair - instead of a single thread - might be used as a worker in half stitch, and the overal effect will be changed again...
I've just had a private message from Leonard (not yet answered; sorry <g>), musing on the advantages/disadvantges of diagrams. I agree with him up to a point: diagrams do clip our wings, and limit our imagination/flexibility; they ossify our lace, making us fearful to stray from the path... Where, surely, the old-time lacemakers "thought on the pillow", and did what was needful to get the best effect...
We do need the diagrams now; none of us is a full-time, professional lacemaker, and we don't have the same arsenal of tricks in our hands and minds that they did. But we *do* need to remember that lace is flexible, not made of stone, and that the diagrams are there to guide us, not to rule us; they're only one of the tools... The ruling principle remains the same as before: do whatever's necessary to obtain the most pleasing effect.
End of sermon :)
--- Tamara P Duvall http://lorien.emufarm.org/~tpd Lexington, Virginia, USA (Formerly of Warsaw, Poland) Healthy US through The No-CARB Diet: no C-heney, no A-shcroft, no R-umsfeld, no B-ush.
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