Re: [lace] bucks point grid size

Thu, 23 Oct 2008 09:32:18 -0700 

Hi Sue
No you wouldn't need 72 degrees to get a pentagon. The working angle is the angle between a line of ground pins and the line of foot edge pins, not the angle that the corner turns. 


Draw a pentagon, mark the centre and divide it into five triangles 
around the centre point.
If everything is equal and the triangles are isosceles the five angles 
in the centre will each be 72 degrees.
For any one of the triangles the other two angles together will be 
180-72 = 108 degrees, so each will be 54 degrees (I got it wrong too!).



Now look at one of the triangles.  The outside edge is the footside and 
the side that goes down towards the centre point is the line of ground, 
so the working angle is 54 degrees.



If you did have a working angle of 72 degrees, each triangle would have 
two angles of 72 degrees, so the other one would only be 36 degrees and 
you would end up with ten sides



For a hexagon it works out that every angle is 60 degrees (which 
doesn't make for the best looking Bucks point) and the working angle is 
the same as the turning angle.



Same with a square.  Divide it into four triangles, the four angles at 
the centre are each 360/4 = 90 degrees, so the other two will be 45 
degrees and 45 degrees - the working angle of torchon.


Brenda

On 23 Oct 2008, at 14:01, Sue Babbs wrote:


Not spending time to check my thoughts, but wouldn't you need 72 
degrees to get a pentagon? 5x58 = 290 so you are 70 degrees short of a 
circle, which is what you'll need isn't it? Or are my early morning 
thoughts missing something?

Sue

----- Original Message -----
From: Brenda Paternoster
To: Sue
Cc: Sue Babbs ; Arachne
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:01 AM
Subject: Re: [lace] bucks point grid size

Sue

If your Bucks grid has a working angle of 58 degrees you can make five

corners for a pentagon shape or if it has a working angle of 60 
degrees

six corners will make a hexagon.  Otherwise you have to cut and paste
and do all sorts of odd things or design a proper Bucks corner which
takes the cloth stitch/gimps etc right across all the ground from the
headside to the footside.

That's the reason why traditional Bucks point does not usually have
corners, instead a straight edging is gathered around a corner.

Brenda


On 23 Oct 2008, at 10:32, Sue wrote:

> Thanks Sue,
> I had recognised that fact from the obvious different look along the

> short sides of the rectangle to the long, but I thought it was just 
me

> and was hoping that it could work right by using another grid (apart
> from 45 deg).  I was hoping to make this as a bucks point pattern
> without having to cut paper and use sticky tape.  Because I had the
> short length right (with the funny shaped grid, I now need to rework
> that out to fit the space I have).  I wish I was better at maths,
> <grin>.  I will get there eventually,  I like it too much to give up
> now.
> I did change the pattern to a couple of other different numbers of
> grid with no better success. Sue T, Dorset UK
>
> Sue Babbs wrote:

>> You can't print a rectangular Bucks pattern on one grid - as you 
have

>> discovered when you turn the corner the grid angle will change. If
>> you were

>> working at 52 degrees then having turned the corner it will be 
90-52

>> degrees
>> ie 38 degrees.  The corner will need to be carefully designed to
>> transition
>> from one to the other.
>>

>> You will need to print one of the correct strips with a corner - 
and

>> physically cut and paste as needed.
>>
>> Sue
>>
>>
>
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Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html




Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html

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