Two points that I don't think were mentioned were that it is easier to dispense with diagrams if you tend to make only one kind of lace. In the US it is not unusual to make all different kinds of lace depending on who might be teaching within a couple hundred miles of where you live. So one often does not develop such a high lever of familiarity with a particular set of conventions. Another point that I didn't see mentioned was that sometimes it is rather fun to follow a challenging diagram. I particularly like Ulrike Lohr's which have so many different numbers and letters that she has to resort to different letter and number systems to refer you to techniques and even other books. She uses cardinal numbers, Roman numerals, and decimals, capital letters, small letters, sometimes Greek letters. I am waiting for the day that she runs out of letters and has to resort to Cyrillic or possibly Windings.This can be a lot of fun if you like puzzles. You sort of get in a zone where your mind is totally occupied. Devon In a message dated 10/30/2011 9:52:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nnef...@yahoo.com writes:
This has been a fascinating and very illuminating discussion--thanks to everyone who contributed so far. One general (but not absolute) pattern (pun) I see in the posts is the difference between those working the complex and less regular Belgian laces and those working point ground or piece laces. I've done both, and I find doing my own diagrams for floral Bucks much easier than diagramming the Belgian laces (beyond the beginning designs). Clay's analysis of the origin of the standardised colored diagrams being associated with the Belgian laces was an important point in my understanding of the value and place of diagrams. Also, the observations about how one interacts with the diagrams seem to me to show that the answer to my original question (..."are we cheating"...) is "it depends"--on how we use and interact with the diagrams, as several pointed out. Plus the value of the diagrams at any stage for those of us learning mostly from books is important. On the other hand, the place of diagrams (or not) in teaching in a classroom setting is valuable only to the extent that they are used sparingly or generated by the students under the guidance of the teacher. This is what I've got out of the discussions so far. I hope others feel free to jump in, or to argue with the above attempt at a summary of a valuable discussion. Thanks again. Nancy Connecticut, where I am thoroughly snowed in, being "above the snow line" in the corner of the state that got 26+ inches. The rest of the day will be spent digging out a long driveway in the hope of getting to work tomorrow. No lace for me today. No power either. Complete bummer. >________________________________ > >From: Susan Roberts <susanjrobe...@tiscali.co.uk> >To: Arachne <lace@arachne.com> >Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 8:04 AM >Subject: Re: [lace] diagrams > >...I should say that the vast majority of the lace I work now a >days is Binche.... >...How you interact with the diagram dictates whether it is more "lace by >numbers"..... >...To me working out the diagram is the challenge and the puzzle of lace, I've >drawn diagrams for almost 25 years now to try and work out what to do in a >pricking, perhaps if I'd had a teacher at the time things would have been >different but I know I wouldn't have learnt as much,.... >Susan >--------------------------------------------------------------- >Susan Roberts >http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/susanroberts > >-----Original Message----- >From: robinl...@socal.rr.com >Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 4:27 AM >To: Arachne >Subject: Re: [lace] diagrams > >--------- Nancy Neff <nnef...@yahoo.com> wrote: >I am interested in what you all think about the colored diagrams that >accompany much published lace. I was struck by the phrase "which is sort of >paint by numbers" in a recent post.----- > >I have come across this attitude before. Holly Van Sciver does not use >diagrams when she teaches, believing people become too dependent on the >diagram instead of coming to understand the lace. If this happens, the >student is unable to progress to any other piece unless it, too, has a thread >diagram. > >I think this is probably true for some people. I, however, learn a whole lot >more having a diagram than without it. .... >If I am shown, I am perfectly able to generalize from >this instance to other, similar situations... > >Robin P. >Los Angeles, California, USA >robinl...@socal.rr.com > > >While in Brugge this summer working diagrams were described to me as the >Esperanto of lace by one of the shop keepers. .... - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003 - To unsubscribe send email to majord...@arachne.com containing the line: unsubscribe lace y...@address.here. For help, write to arachne.modera...@gmail.com. Photo site: http://community.webshots.com/user/arachne2003
