First of all there is nothing that keeps Laszlo from working perfectly fine with IeMac that I know of.
All I'm saying is to be cautious about overusing external interface when targeting the flash player (not when targeting dhtml if that's what you thought I was saying) because, for example, if all normal data started going through it in order to give us access to http headers, that would be nice for some apps, but create a break for others unnecesarily. I don't anticipate this happening at all without some backup such as the existing mechanisms. I just wanted to mention that in case the decision comes up. So folk realize that there is a downside that would be easy to miss.
But the computer press seems to feel that if everybody just stops believing in IeMac, it will go away. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but that announcement was a long time ago and I have information that folk apparently still use it. So I am just reporting that information. I'll be really glad to turn out to be wrong in a few years, but I think this may be wishfull thinking.
Listen to me or not, but telling me that I'm a bad citizen unless I adopt this egotistical, self righteous, arrogant and in the end incorrect opinion that I know better than the users out there what they should be doing with their time, resources and technology is both insulting and terribly wrong. First of all, I do a tremendous ammount of helping others on my own time as well as on the job and one of the things that I know most is that there is always a more complex picture than you are aware of.
For example your suggestion that good citizens can just fix any problems with a magical link to firefox and the world will become a better place. is based on a ton of assumptions.
1) That these teachers have permission to download and install new software.
2) that they could do so without help.
3) That a noisy dialup connection in the middle of the desert can download a 5MB file without freezing up from errors.
4) That there aren't significant political hoops or poletics involved in changing these computers configuations
5) That whoever sets up or maintains the computers doesn't have something more important to do or will even respond to the teachers request in time for a class.
6) That the person who sets up this new browser is either organized enough to do the same thing each time or will even be the same person or use the same configuration each time.
7) That there isn't some good reason that they use IeMac, maybe they like IeMac, maybe it's integrated with their administrative or other software in some way.
8) That I haven't been helping people upgrade their browsers when possible.
The point is that you have no idea and neither do I. This isn't one school or school district, it's hundreds. And sure there are partial fixes, like they could order a firefox cd, but then what about the first time that firefox has a patch that needs to be downloaded and the patch is too big for the phone line. There is alwasy something that your easy fix isn't fixing. Instead of teaching kids that math is fun and meaningfull and related to art all we would be doing is reinforcing the belief that technology makes your life more difficult.
I'm sorry if part of this comes off as impolite, but by saying that I'm ignoring the plight of others by not preaching to them the gospel of firefox, while knowing nothing about me or what I have been doing, you really insulted me. And I wanted to wait until tomorrow when I was no longer mad to respond but I couldn't concentrate on my work without responding first. The ego involved to say that you know better than I do knowing little about me and that I know better than they do knowing little about them is absurd.
-Cort
Using Internet Explorer for the Mac is like driving at night with your headlights turned off.
When you see somebody driving with their headlights turned off, what do you do – put up more streetlights?
Of course not: You flash your headlights at them so they realize they're making a dangerous mistake, turn their headlights on, and don't cause themselves or anyone else harm.
If you're a cop, you pull them over, give them a warning, write them a ticket if they refuse to turn them on, and throw them in jail if they're drunk.
The solution to the problem is not to put streetlights along the one particular road where you saw them driving, because they'll surely drive along many other roads with their headlights off.
The problem is not the lack of streetlights on every road, it's the people driving around with their lights off.
It costs absolutely nothing to turn your headlights on, or upgrade to Firefox. So it's not an issue of "poor school districts can't afford it". They're still in the business of educating, so there's no excuse for cultivating ignorance.
Streetlights are expensive, and take resources away from other more important tasks like stop lights, building new roads and filling potholes.
Supporting MacIE is also quite difficult, and a waste of resources, and pointless because upgrading is absolutely free.
OpenLaszlo supporting MacIE isn't going to help those users with the millions of other web sites that have problems with obsolete web browsers. But encouraging them to upgrade will.
But OpenLaszlo is open source, so if you really want to support MacIE yourself, then go right ahead.
But what you ask is extremely difficult, and you might as well petition Microsoft to fix their unsupported software.
However, if you won't even flash your lights at people driving around with their lights off to make them stop, then it's not reasonable to expect others to put their time and resources into building streetlights everywhere just because some people drive without headlights.
If it's really an issue, then webmasters who gets lots of hits from IEMac users should redirect them to a page that explains the web browser they're using is obsolete and buggy, and gives them links to download modern web browsers. Then they'll be improving the world instead of turning a blind eye to its problems.
It's more responsible to educate kids in poor schools who use bad software, and encourage them to simply upgrade for free so they're safer and better off, than it is to ignore their plight.
-Don
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Cortlandt Winters
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 9:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Laszlo-dev] Re: MacIE is dead.
Hi Don,
I read the announcement when it first came out and I would like to believe that it will make a difference, but I will really only believe it when I see the server logs that say it is so.
I understand how horrible it is, but like a virus, it's out there. And real normal human beings to whom a browser is just an icon that you click on, do seem to use it.
I am also willing to bet that the folk who use these browsers have never received support of any kind from microsoft for any microsoft software that they have ever used and the lack of support will go unnoticed by them.
By what I have seen these are largely elementary, jr high and high schools in poor districts that were once given labs of macintosh computers and still use them. When a computer has a problem they use the software that came with the computer to fix it.
I'm afraid that to believe that IEMac is dead is to believe a bit in engineering by wishfull thinking.
Thanks though.
-Cort
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