Another thought for you... Another possiblity for is to use the file based version of SVN. It'll alleviate the corrupt database issues. We just made that switch yesterday without any grief. In any case, either Perforce or SVN will work fine for me.
Doug Poirier -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 4:15 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Laszlo-dev Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18 Send Laszlo-dev mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.openlaszlo.org/mailman/listinfo/laszlo-dev or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can reach the person managing the list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Laszlo-dev digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: For Review (revised): Change 36782 Summary:Remove all $flasm code from OLR. (John Sundman) 2. Re: A question for potential contributors (Scott Evans) 3. Re: For Review (revised): Change 36782 Summary:Remove all $flasm code from OLR. (P T Withington) 4. Re: [Laszlo-dev]http://us.f521.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Inbox&Mid=9715_16580091_41660_3530_1424_0_35229_2908_4243431111&inc=&Search=&YY=28864&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b A question for potential contributors (James Caple) 5. Re: A question for potential contributors (Sean Wheller) 6. Re: A question for potential contributors (Mika G?ckel) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 18:58:54 -0500 From: John Sundman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Laszlo-dev] Re: For Review (revised): Change 36782 Summary:Remove all $flasm code from OLR. To: Jim Grandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: P T Withington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed approved by me pro forma. There's nothing user-visble in this, so I'm not looking at it. Please correct me it I'm wrong on this. jrs On Jan 6, 2006, at 6:54 PM, Jim Grandy wrote: > Change 36782 by [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 2006/01/06 10:44:12 *pending* > > Summary:Remove all $flasm code from OLR. > > Bugs Fixed:LPP-350 > > Technical Reviewer: ptw (pending) > QA Reviewer: mdavis (pending) > Doc Reviewer: jsundman (pending) > > Release Notes:The OLR no longer contains any $flasm code. > > Tests:smokecheck, Laszlo Explorer > > Affected files ... > > ... //depot/lps-dev/WEB-INF/lps/lfc/core/LzNode.as#26 edit ... > //depot/lps-dev/WEB-INF/lps/lfc/events/LaszloEvents.as#13 edit ... > //depot/lps-dev/WEB-INF/lps/lfc/services/LzInstantiator.as#8 edit ... > //depot/lps-dev/WEB-INF/lps/lfc/views/LaszloView.as#33 edit > > > <changeset-36782.zip> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:30:12 -0800 (PST) From: Scott Evans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Laszlo-dev] A question for potential contributors To: Elliot Winard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Jim Grandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, OpenLaszlo development and bug reporting <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yeah, what Elliot said. While we're at it, I hadn't used p4 before I started at Laszlo but I like it pretty well. I don't think anyone will mind using the software itself. On Fri, 6 Jan 2006, Elliot Winard wrote: > The open source zealots that I know would not use p4, but they also aren't > interested in contributing to Laszlo until we compile to something that runs > in an open source container like DHTML or a SVG player. I doubt we'd have > many > of these folks working on Laszlo contributions. > > Switching from Subversion to P4, given that the license is free, won't be too > difficult for folks to manage. I personally use Perforce for work and svn for > small home projects without any problems. > -e > > On Fri, 6 Jan 2006, Jim Grandy wrote: > > > Hi folks, > > > > As we start 2006, the OpenLaszlo team is looking seriously at how we might > > improve how we support external contributors. The biggest problem right now > > is > > that we don't have a way to allow non-Laszlo employees to commit changes > > directly into the sources -- all changes have to be integrated by a team > > member. This is frustrating for our most passionate and dedicated > > contributors, and limits the scope of projects that our partners can take > > on. > > > > Currently we use Perforce for internal source management, and the Subversion > > database available on openlaszlo.org is a read-only copy. We will be moving > > the OpenLaszlo sources into their own repository soon, with read-write > > access > > from the Internet. > > > > We are considering whether to build this new OpenLaszlo repository using > > Subversion or Perforce. We like Subversion because it is more > > familiar/acceptable to the open source community, it is open source itself, > > and because it has some nice features (like a clean model for disconnected > > clients). > > > > However, as some of you have discovered, we have run into cases where our > > Subversion database has become corrupted. Our research suggests that this is > > not uncommon with relatively new repositories, and the recommended solution > > appears to be to throw out the repository (including change history) and > > start > > from scratch with a new database. > > > > Our alternative is Perforce, which is already integrated into our build and > > backup scripts, and which has an open source license. However, we are > > concerned that some folks will not want to download the p4 client to their > > machine, and that we'll lose participants because of this choice. > > > > So I guess I have two questions. First, whether anyone can set our minds to > > rest regarding subversion and corrupt databases. And second, if we can't > > reach > > an appropriate level of confidence with svn, how would you feel about using > > p4? > > > > Thanks, > > > > jim > > > > Jim Grandy > > Director of Platform Engineering > > Laszlo Systems, Inc. > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Laszlo-dev mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://www.openlaszlo.org/mailman/listinfo/laszlo-dev > _______________________________________________ > Laszlo-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.openlaszlo.org/mailman/listinfo/laszlo-dev > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 19:35:05 -0500 From: P T Withington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Laszlo-dev] Re: For Review (revised): Change 36782 Summary:Remove all $flasm code from OLR. To: Jim Grandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [email protected] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Approved. On 6 Jan 2006, at 18:54, Jim Grandy wrote: > Change 36782 by [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 2006/01/06 10:44:12 *pending* > > Summary:Remove all $flasm code from OLR. > > Bugs Fixed:LPP-350 > > Technical Reviewer: ptw (pending) > QA Reviewer: mdavis (pending) > Doc Reviewer: jsundman (pending) > > Release Notes:The OLR no longer contains any $flasm code. > > Tests:smokecheck, Laszlo Explorer > > Affected files ... > > ... //depot/lps-dev/WEB-INF/lps/lfc/core/LzNode.as#26 edit > ... //depot/lps-dev/WEB-INF/lps/lfc/events/LaszloEvents.as#13 edit > ... //depot/lps-dev/WEB-INF/lps/lfc/services/LzInstantiator.as#8 edit > ... //depot/lps-dev/WEB-INF/lps/lfc/views/LaszloView.as#33 edit > > > <changeset-36782.zip> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2006 20:09:46 -0800 (PST) From: James Caple <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Laszlo-dev]http://us.f521.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?box=Inbox&Mid=9715_16580091_41660_3530_1424_0_35229_2908_4243431111&inc=&Search=&YY=28864&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b A question for potential contributors To: Jim Grandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: OpenLaszlo development and bug reporting <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi, The commentary on subversion caught my attention. As an engineer who has worked with administering subversion to a certain degree over the last six months or so, I am actually glad to hear another development shop lament subversion database corruption. It is true - once the berkley db gets corrupted, you pretty much have to rebuild your repository (and getting rid of all those recursive .svn directories can be a pain). Here's a great UNIX command for this: find . -name .svn -exec rm {} \; I have learned and experienced, however, that running subversion as a file managed repository instead of using berkeley db is MUCH more reliable (assuming that's not how you guys are using subversion already). I have also had problems using Apache HTTP access to subversion using berkley db. Using the file system and the subversion svn daemon, I have had much better success with the tool. Never used perforce, but subversion has grown on me. 2 cents, James Elliot Winard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The open source zealots that I know would not use p4, but they also aren't interested in contributing to Laszlo until we compile to something that runs in an open source container like DHTML or a SVG player. I doubt we'd have many of these folks working on Laszlo contributions. Switching from Subversion to P4, given that the license is free, won't be too difficult for folks to manage. I personally use Perforce for work and svn for small home projects without any problems. -e On Fri, 6 Jan 2006, Jim Grandy wrote: > Hi folks, > > As we start 2006, the OpenLaszlo team is looking seriously at how we might > improve how we support external contributors. The biggest problem right now is > that we don't have a way to allow non-Laszlo employees to commit changes > directly into the sources -- all changes have to be integrated by a team > member. This is frustrating for our most passionate and dedicated > contributors, and limits the scope of projects that our partners can take on. > > Currently we use Perforce for internal source management, and the Subversion > database available on openlaszlo.org is a read-only copy. We will be moving > the OpenLaszlo sources into their own repository soon, with read-write access > from the Internet. > > We are considering whether to build this new OpenLaszlo repository using > Subversion or Perforce. We like Subversion because it is more > familiar/acceptable to the open source community, it is open source itself, > and because it has some nice features (like a clean model for disconnected > clients). > > However, as some of you have discovered, we have run into cases where our > Subversion database has become corrupted. Our research suggests that this is > not uncommon with relatively new repositories, and the recommended solution > appears to be to throw out the repository (including change history) and start > from scratch with a new database. > > Our alternative is Perforce, which is already integrated into our build and > backup scripts, and which has an open source license. However, we are > concerned that some folks will not want to download the p4 client to their > machine, and that we'll lose participants because of this choice. > > So I guess I have two questions. First, whether anyone can set our minds to > rest regarding subversion and corrupt databases. And second, if we can't reach > an appropriate level of confidence with svn, how would you feel about using > p4? > > Thanks, > > jim > > Jim Grandy > Director of Platform Engineering > Laszlo Systems, Inc. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _______________________________________________ > Laszlo-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.openlaszlo.org/mailman/listinfo/laszlo-dev _______________________________________________ Laszlo-dev mailing list [email protected] http://www.openlaszlo.org/mailman/listinfo/laszlo-dev --------------------------------- Yahoo! Photos Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openlaszlo.org/pipermail/laszlo-dev/attachments/20060106/753b0112/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2006 08:25:16 +0200 From: Sean Wheller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Laszlo-dev] A question for potential contributors To: [email protected] Cc: Jim Grandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Friday 06 January 2006 21:54, Elliot Winard wrote: > The open source zealots that I know would not use p4, but they also aren't > interested in contributing to Laszlo until we compile to something that > runs in an open source container like DHTML or a SVG player. I doubt we'd > have many of these folks working on Laszlo contributions. > > Switching from Subversion to P4, given that the license is free, won't be > too difficult for folks to manage. I personally use Perforce for work and > svn for small home projects without any problems. Looking forward, to a day when open versions of flash or other runtimes will be more ready and available, do you really want to be in a situation where you are using a closed source tool for revision management? The decisions we make today, will determine our reality in the future. That future looks very open source. I am an open source zealot, I am willing to accommodate that the runtime is not open due to limitations in the availability of open source alternatives. I am not willing to tolerate using a closed source tool for revision management when there are suitable and accessible free tools available now. Look at it this way. When an open source zealot arrives at an open project, there is an expectation that the project has embraced open source philosophy, methodology, technology and license to the fullest extent possible. If this is the case, then the way for participation is made easy and the zealot can tolerate the use of non-GPL software. The reality of the database problem is that proper attention from the system admin and a suitable plan for backup and continuity would have seen this problem being much less dramatic than what it is. -- Sean Wheller Technical Author [EMAIL PROTECTED] +27-84-854-9408 http://www.inwords.co.za ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2006 12:12:17 +0100 From: Mika G?ckel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Laszlo-dev] A question for potential contributors Cc: Jim Grandy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Hi Jim, I don't know P4, having worked only with PVCS, ClearCase, CVS and with SVN. I personally think it doesn't matter much if the tools you use are OpenSource to contribute to OpenSource. See IntelliJ IDEA for example. It's not OpenSource but is used by a lot of folks in the community I know. What matter's more is how good the integration of the repo is with the most spread IDEs (which I think are Eclipse and IDEA). CVS Support is built in (and it is very good). Most of the potential developers will have SVN plug ins already installed (Subclipse is very good). If you go with SVN, there will nearly be nobody having any questions, if you choose P4, they will have to get a plugin and will potentially need support on how to connect to the repo. As I understand the Perforce licensing modell you may also need to have your contributors to sign the P4 end user license agreement.... I'm not a SVN expert, but regarding your corrupted DB problems, you might have a look on SVN's file-system based repository, which is known to work better in some situations. Cheers, Mika -- cyber:con gmbh Mika Göckel Rathausallee 10 53757 Sankt Augustin tel (+49)2241 / 9350 0 fax (+49)2241 / 9350 99 mob (+49) 172 / 279 2771 skype mika.goeckel email [EMAIL PROTECTED] ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Laszlo-dev mailing list [email protected] http://www.openlaszlo.org/mailman/listinfo/laszlo-dev End of Laszlo-dev Digest, Vol 16, Issue 18 ****************************************** _______________________________________________ Laszlo-dev mailing list [email protected] http://www.openlaszlo.org/mailman/listinfo/laszlo-dev
