Re: Deleting an invoice.
I fully agree with Chris and Erik Huelsman
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 6:11 PM, <
[email protected]> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. deleting an invoice (Michael Richardson)
> 2. Re: deleting an invoice (Tone Irene Andersen)
> 3. Re: deleting an invoice (Nigel Titley)
> 4. Re: deleting an invoice (Chris Travers)
> 5. Re: deleting an invoice (Lyle)
> 6. Re: deleting an invoice (Chris Travers)
> 7. Re: deleting an invoice (Erik Huelsmann)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 15:24:20 -0400
> From: Michael Richardson <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
> To: ledger-smb-users <[email protected]>
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>
>
> with 1.3.18, I get:
>
> DELETE FROM invoice WHERE trans_id = ?
> ERROR: update or delete on table "invoice" violates foreign key
> constraint "invoice_tax_form_invoice_id_fkey" on table
> "invoice_tax_form"
> DETAIL: Key (id)=(77399) is still referenced from table
> "invoice_tax_form".
>
> when deleting an unpaid/unreconciled invoice.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 21:29:37 +0200
> From: Tone Irene Andersen <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <D419BC80E0DB47E4BE50CFA6FBA62E10@tiaPB>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed;
> reply-type=original
>
> Hi.
>
> You arent suppose to delete an invoice, rather void it. If you delete it
> you
> make issues in your books.
>
>
> Mvh / Best Regards
>
>
> Tone Irene Andersen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Richardson
> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:24 PM
> To: ledger-smb-users
> Subject: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
>
>
> with 1.3.18, I get:
>
> DELETE FROM invoice WHERE trans_id = ?
> ERROR: update or delete on table "invoice" violates foreign key
> constraint "invoice_tax_form_invoice_id_fkey" on table
> "invoice_tax_form"
> DETAIL: Key (id)=(77399) is still referenced from table
> "invoice_tax_form".
>
> when deleting an unpaid/unreconciled invoice.
>
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 03:12:21 +0100
> From: Nigel Titley <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 30/08/2012 20:29, Tone Irene Andersen wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > You arent suppose to delete an invoice, rather void it. If you delete it
> you
> > make issues in your books.
> >
> That's true, but he shouldn't be getting an pg error message, especially
> if there is a "delete" button for him to press
>
> Nigel
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2012 22:27:10 -0700
> From: Chris Travers <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID:
> <CAKt_ZfsarqJLYORXr=
> [email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Nigel Titley <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 30/08/2012 20:29, Tone Irene Andersen wrote:
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > You arent suppose to delete an invoice, rather void it. If you delete
> it
> > you
> > > make issues in your books.
> > >
> > That's true, but he shouldn't be getting an pg error message, especially
> > if there is a "delete" button for him to press
> >
> > This is true. I forget what we decided to do about this in 1.3. In 1.4
> you can't delete but you can void. The thing is:
>
> 1) Disabling transaction reversal enforcement kind of puts you on
> unsupported territory anyway. There are a lot of hidden gotchas that
> happen when you start deleting invoices and these don't have accepted
> solutions accounting-wise because you aren't supposed to delete them. For
> example you can end up with *really* weird COGS numbers.
>
> 2) At the same time occasionally we run into cases where people can't do
> without deleting the invoices. So we have the option.
>
> I am thinking the best solution here is to put a warning on the audit
> controls screen so people are aware that this is not a supported
> configuration and that more work will need to be done by whoever disables
> it.
>
> What do other people think?
>
> Best Wishes,
> Chris Travers
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:07:51 +0100
> From: Lyle <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 31/08/2012 06:27, Chris Travers wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Nigel Titley <[email protected]
> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> >
> > On 30/08/2012 20:29, Tone Irene Andersen wrote:
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > You arent suppose to delete an invoice, rather void it. If you
> > delete it you
> > > make issues in your books.
> > >
> > That's true, but he shouldn't be getting an pg error message,
> > especially
> > if there is a "delete" button for him to press
> >
> > This is true. I forget what we decided to do about this in 1.3. In
> > 1.4 you can't delete but you can void. The thing is:
>
> As I understand, even Quickbooks has a delete option. The thing is,
> certainly for new and trainee bookkeepers, you make so many mistakes
> that the books simply wouldn't be readable without this.
>
> > What do other people think?
>
> I think it should be supported properly.
>
>
> Lyle
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 03:06:20 -0700
> From: Chris Travers <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID:
> <
> cakt_zfvv-vjf2b+3wfyzt3yq6gessvq9xy8l2gqf5xd7wt1...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 2:07 AM, Lyle <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I think it should be supported properly.
> >
> > Can you define what proper behavior is when an invoice is deleted, FIFO
> inventory behavior is used, and the price of the item is volatile? This is
> where our nasty surprises currently come in. Of course you can't get help
> from accountants because the workflow itself violates generally accepted
> accounting principles and practices. Quickbooks gets away from this a bit
> because they don't support FIFO inventory valuation, probably because it
> leads to an inability to sanely delete invoices). They use average cost
> instead.
>
> The second problem has to do with auditability. If you can delete invoices
> generally after they have become a part of the financial records of your
> business, then internal controls largely don't matter.
>
> What we will support (and I think that this is as close to "proper support"
> as possible) in 1.4 is two stage entry and approval. Enter a transaction,
> save it. Review it. At this point it is not part of the books. It is not
> an invoice. It cannot be printed or emailed. It is just a record that can
> become an invoice. It can be deleted or approved. Once it is approved it
> is shown in the reports as an invoice and can no longer be deleted. This
> is the proper way (accounting-wise) to handle the data entry issue.
> Deleting invoices after they have been posted to the books though is a
> recipe for bad things on all levels and I can't see how we can ever support
> this.
>
> Best Wishes,
> Chris Travers
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 12:11:42 +0200
> From: Erik Huelsmann <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Ledger-smb-users] deleting an invoice
> To: [email protected]
> Message-ID:
> <
> cacoob6h1dcokykyk368_s1ckaecagxgssuvfbfvd0v6g9xr...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi all,
>
> To help trainee bookkeepers, I always keep a current backup / training copy
> of my books. They prepare the invoice or posting in the test copy and when
> the senior validates it as correct, they copy it over to production.
>
> If you don't want to work that way: simply revoke their right to post the
> invoices. Seniors can verify before posting the invoice without causing the
> extra confusing postings.
>
> I really believe there's a process or social issue behind this and as Chris
> said, deleting poses issues for which there is no acceptable answer from a
> finance perspective.
>
> Also: an invoice is a claim on someone's assets. If you cancel that claim,
> you should keep records that you did.
>
> Concluding: I'm not at all on favor of supporting deletion. If voided
> invoices need comments to make the books understandable, there's the option
> to add internal notes.
>
> My 2c.
>
> Bye,
>
> Erik.
>
> sent from my phone
> On Aug 31, 2012 11:40 AM, "Lyle" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 31/08/2012 06:27, Chris Travers wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Nigel Titley <[email protected]
> > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 30/08/2012 20:29, Tone Irene Andersen wrote:
> > > > Hi.
> > > >
> > > > You arent suppose to delete an invoice, rather void it. If you
> > > delete it you
> > > > make issues in your books.
> > > >
> > > That's true, but he shouldn't be getting an pg error message,
> > > especially
> > > if there is a "delete" button for him to press
> > >
> > > This is true. I forget what we decided to do about this in 1.3. In
> > > 1.4 you can't delete but you can void. The thing is:
> >
> > As I understand, even Quickbooks has a delete option. The thing is,
> > certainly for new and trainee bookkeepers, you make so many mistakes
> > that the books simply wouldn't be readable without this.
> >
> > > What do other people think?
> >
> > I think it should be supported properly.
> >
> >
> > Lyle
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Live Security Virtual Conference
> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> > will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> > threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ledger-smb-users mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ledger-smb-users
> >
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> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
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