----- Original Message ----- > Im sorry Rick but dragging in the Yorkshire radio stuff it totally > irrelevant here and I wonder why you did?
Because it is one of the most contentious issues in the voting rights arrangements. If you can explain to me why YR were given voting rights and RL were not then I'd be very interested to heard it. There may well be an obvious and very good reason but I have never heard it. I already said myself that it my not be relevant but I am not as certain as you are about it. YR/RL is also currently a contentious issue. Perhaps you do in fact know more about the scope of this arbitration than I do in which case I bow to your knowledge. Your arguments appear to wish to apply the "letter of the law" when it suits you but then apply a "reasonable view" when that gives you a more favourable outcome on other points. I do not think that the rival clubs upholding the 15 points is relevant (however "feverish" or unfair it may or may not have been). They did not increase the actions that had already been taken so they did not alter anything. If they had changed anything then you would have a good point, I admit. Please explain why you think exiting administration with a CVA should be on the same standing as exiting without one. I have no doubt that you can see the very obvious "moral hazard" if that was the case. The degree of control or lack of it is not a matter for a public forum but there are many who do not agree 100% with your apparent position. The absence of illegality is, of course, something that is agreed upon and in any event you would need to argue this with a lawyer and not with myself. You appear to wish to sometimes take into account WHY certain things happened and in other cases to ignore the WHY altogether. > I'm not sure if any form of contract law is involved here but I am sure > you know that punitive damages are not acceptable in contracts - so a > reasonable view on whether an extra 15 points in this situation is > punitive or not may also come into play. How a 25 point deduction for > going into administration and not being allowed to come out via a CVA by > the administrators could NOT be seen as punitive, especially given the > feverish sanction of that penalty by other clubs, I do not know. The contract with the old LU entity had ended and there is a new contract, if anything, with the new LU entity. There is therefore no 25 point penalty legally speaking as far as I can see. The Football club ceased to exist and a new one was formed. Two different companies, so you cannot meaningfully add the two penalties together. Either the argument sticks to the known facts in terms of the formal arrangements or we go into the realms of fairness and righteousness which I suggest is thin ice in this matter from start to finish. The original 10 point deduction was shed at the same time as the debts. If the original 10 point deduction has some relevance then how it came about also retains its relevance. The new contract appears to be that the price of a golden share is, in this case, 15 points. That does not sound like an excessive price if you don't have a Golden Share, you are not entitled to a golden share, and you desperately need to obtain one. Similarly, obtaining a golden share free of charge would also seem excessively cheap. No doubt this lead to extensive negotiation but at the end of the day the new LU accepted those terms. I am not aware that any damages punitive or otherwise have been applied under the contract with the new Leeds United. If you prefer to see this in terms of a penalty (which is fair enough but not necessarily more correct) then a 10 point penalty would not be considered excessive IMHO. Pretty much par for the course in this sort of thing. An extra 5 - well maybe. I am also biased in favour of LU. Isn't everyone on this list ? I am in fact so biased in favour of Leeds United that the very real possibility of a second immediate relegation or even not obtaining a golden share at all left me physically sick just thinking about it. We should be very, very glad that there was little time left until the new season kicked off. I am also so biased in favour of Leeds United that I cannot easily forget a direct and open threat to its existence, whatever the source of that threat may have been. I would be delighted if there was some legal point that means that all 15 points will be recovered. That is my speaking as a Leeds Fan. If it happens I doubt that my rejoicing will be shared by the world of football in general but, hey, I can deal with that. :-) _______________________________________________ the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors. Leedslist mailing list [email protected] http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist DELETE THE FOOTERS WHEN REPLYING YOU LAZY SODS!!!! DELETE THE FOOTERS WHEN REPLYING YOU LAZY SODS!!!!
