Lawrence Rosen wrote:
Sam Ruby wrote:
I see an understandable focus on patents. However, patents are but one way in which standards may be encumbered.
My concern is that this is a different bar than Apache has been (informally) operating under in the past. Two specific differences are immediately apparent, both with examples from the JCP (the specifications relevant to the Apache implementations I have most been concerned about).
1) We have not previously concerned ourselves with the freedom to obtain or copy the specification itself. For an example, try downloading the specification for:
http://java.sun.com/xml/downloads/jaxrpc.html
That specification is not available under an open source license. Java is not an open standard. There is no reason to reopen the discussion here about Sun's licensing strategy or Apache's agreement to live with it. I'm not arguing that Apache should *only* adopt open standards; that perhaps ought to be a case-by-case decision. But we should at least acknowledge that Sun's Java standards aren't open. I don't know anyone who believes they are open, by the way.
2) We have previously rejected requirements to carry forward requirements of compatibility and branding:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg07824.html
Such requirements are not a part of an open standard; they may not even be compatible with antitrust law. If and only if we want to be certified would we intentionally brand (e.g.) our J2EE implementations with Sun's certification marks. Because we are open source, we can't and don't force our downstream licensees to be certified or to remain compatible.
My intent of raising these concerns is *not* to reopen the prior discussions, but rather to ensure that the positions we are now considering are not unnecessarily incompatible with the ways in which we have operated in the past.
I don't see them as incompatible.
/Larry
Unfortunately, if the result is that we have defined a term that is simultaneously more restrictive in some areas than Apache wishes to pursue, and less restrictive in other areas, I fear that the result is less than useful for helping us address the following goal:
Comments? At the end of this process it would be nice to be able to make a public statement about standards, IP, and Apache; but we need to get our own house cleaned and decide what our own policy should be before doing so.
- Sam Ruby
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