On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:42:33AM -0700, SteveC wrote: > Basically, what do we feel substantial means when someone takes some > part of the data? How much is 'substantial'? I won't frame the > question further as I can see a number of ways and we, the license > working group, would like to get a feel for the communities views. > We're not looking for a legal opinion on that here, clearly case law > one day has to play a role. Rather, what do we think it means?
I think it depends, which is quite unfortunate given that we’re trying to come up with some sort of definition. I agree with Russ on anything that matches a single criteria should definitely be considered substantial. I did try (not very hard) to think of some counter‐examples (those that I would consider insubstantial but defined with a single criteria) but didn’t come up with any (other than using ids which identify objects stored in the database), but after devising my example for deciding when multiple nodes/ways start to become substantial I do have some possibilities. If we’re clear that “insubstantial” is anything that is not “substantial”, then using that to help: I think a single primitive object (node, way or relation) is insubstantial. However, a way is a list of nodes, and a relation is collection of ways and nodes: When do they these collections of objects become substantial? I think definitely not until there is more than one object tagged (not just created_by=) (though this in itself may not be considered substantial). To try and explain: * way 23644120[1] with its untagged nodes (256147816, 26431535, 21092669 and 21092665) is definitely insubstantial. * way 4341611[2] with its nodes, some of which are tagged (26431528, 359721186, 310688016) as mini‐roundabouts is getting towards being substantial (though I don’t think it is substantial, but illustrates a minimum requirement for something to be considered substantial). [1]: http://openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23644120 [2]: http://openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4341611 Using the same area that I randomly picked[3] as an example (just northeast of Shrewsbury), here are my opinions of what’s substantial and what’s not: 1. way 23644120 (part of A49) — insubstantial 2. way 4341611 (potentially the whole of Sundorne Road), including mini‐roundabouts — insubstantial 3. All ways that make up the A49 — unsure 4. All trunk and primary roads in the Sundorne Grove area — unsure 5. All highways in the Sundorne Grove area — unsure 6. All objects in the Sundorne Grove area — substantial 7. All highways in the Shrewsbury area — unsure 8. All objects in the Shrewsbury area — substantial [3]: http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.7315&lon=-2.7191&zoom=14&layers=B000FTFT Simon -- A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a simple system that works.—John Gall
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