Neil,

> On 14 Mar 2014, at 05:26, "Bradley M. Kuhn" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I hope you will all indulge me
>> briefly when I shout: "YOU ALL ARE DRIVING ME CRAZY WITH THIS STUFF." :)

Neil Brown wrote at 06:26 (EDT):
> Indulgence granted :)

Thanks. :)

> for Andrew and me, it is more a matter of identifying potential
> ambiguity and discussing it - perhaps primarily out of pure
> intellectual curiosity - than attempting to irk you (or Bruce), or to
> create a cottage industry of "here's how to avoid the GPL" advisory
> services.

Well, if it were just about irking me, I wouldn't care.  I would agree
if someone said "you deserve to be irked once in a while".  The issue is
rather that I am in the (perhaps unique) position of having lived
through situations where emails on this list (and/or others like it)
have been studied by GPL violator defense counsel and *have been*
introduced into evidence in GPL enforcement cases.  In fact, I've been
diposed more than once in GPL enforcement cases and presented with (and
asked questions about) documents from mailing lists like this.


To explain it another way: the situation reminds me of why I dropped out
of my CS PhD program: I found that most people in academic computer
science didn't care in the least about the sociopolitical ramifications
of their work.  They just loved the "problem", whatever problem they
specialized in.  Similarly, I feel that most people who discuss GPL have
a tendency to look at the GPL as a document of nonpolitical academic
interest, not as a key policy cornerstone that people have to go out
there and use to defend software freedom.

Admittedly, people give me (IMO an unduly) hard time about "failing to
discuss dispassionately about these topics".  I'm not dispassionate; by
contrast, I'm emotionally invested, because I believe proprietary software
harms people, and Free Software is the solution.  In turn, GPL is the shield
that defends people from that harm.  So, damn right, I'm passionate.  I
even argue that those who take a dispassionate, "what if"-"devil's
advocate"-kind-of attitude to GPL discussion (at best) are neutral on
whether or not proprietary software harms society.  That not only irks me,
it creates real adversarial danger (or, at best, becomes useful raw
material for such adversarial danger) for those of us fighting for
software freedom and the GPL.

> (If I genuinely have done something to irk you, you've got my contact
> details, and do feel free to pick up off-list!)

As I said, I don't mind if you irk me; feel free to do so any time you
like.  :) I just mind if, as an expert in licensing, you say something
"devil's advocate"-ish today on this list that ends up in a culmination
of you being called as an opposing witness to defend some GPL violator
from whom I'm trying to compel their required GPL source code release.

And, *that* is not a hypothetical scenario.  I've *more than once* faced
the defense naming as their expert witness participants in this list and
others like it.

Yes, I'm a admittedly a cynic, but given that fact above, I have to
assume that anyone making odd statements about GPL compliance is going
to get hired to fight against enforcement efforts later: it's happened
before, it will happen again.  GPL violators pay a lot more than my job
does, pure and simple, so if one doesn't believe that proprietary
software is harmful to society, one is likely to take such a job because
it's, simply put, going to pay better than being on the "right side".

Hopefully that explains why I get so upset when folks make such
blatantly false claims like "making the offer for source ends your
compliance obligations", even if done with a devil's advocate point of
view.  (As I've already said on the record, that claim has no basis.)

And, to be a bit less cynical, I truly believe that nearly everyone who
posts on this list is well-intentioned and wants software to be Free.
My primary point here is there's a slippery slope of policy positions
that starts at "devil's advocate" and ends with helping violators avoid
their obligations under GPL.
-- 
   -- bkuhn

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